Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 30th Jan 2008 22:57 UTC, submitted by irbis
"Tabs. Mouse gestures. User-agent switcher. Dedicated transfer window. Pop-up blocking and javascript abuse filtering. Integrated search box. Page zoom. Session saver. Chew on those features. We'll be coming back to them."
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RE[2]: First, First, First! IT DOES NOT MATTER!
by flanque on Thu 31st Jan 2008 02:57
in reply to "RE: First, First, First! IT DOES NOT MATTER!"
Member since:2005-12-15
RE[3]: First, First, First! IT DOES NOT MATTER!
by gary.c on Mon 4th Feb 2008 01:38
in reply to "RE[2]: First, First, First! IT DOES NOT MATTER!"
Member since:2007-07-30
"[q]By default, the Opera interface SUCKS.
By definition, aesthetic judgements are subjective. "
True, but I agree with him. [/q]
That's fine, and thanks for taking the time to provide another illustration of my point. But as long as enough people want to use Opera to keep Opera Software in business, I'm a happy camper. :-)
RE[2]: First, First, First! IT DOES NOT MATTER!
by andrewg on Thu 31st Jan 2008 19:09
in reply to "RE: First, First, First! IT DOES NOT MATTER!"
Member since:2005-07-06
I disagree. I believe there is an objective component. I think its actually quite an important question i.e. whether or not things like beauty or aeshetics are intrinsically so or at least have an intrinsic component which makes them beautiful.
There is a little book called "The abolition of man" by C.S. Lewis which you may find interesting.
RE[3]: First, First, First! IT DOES NOT MATTER!
by gary.c on Fri 1st Feb 2008 02:11
in reply to "RE[2]: First, First, First! IT DOES NOT MATTER!"
Member since:2007-07-30
I disagree. I believe there is an objective component.
You realize, I hope, that your statement here ("I believe...") makes explicit the subjective nature of your viewpoint. That illustrates the problem of looking for something objective underlying aesthetic judgements, I think. No matter what "intrinsic component" is found, I suspect it will only be "objective" within a certain social context or world view or philosophy/religion, etc.
I think its actually quite an important question i.e. whether or not things like beauty or aeshetics are intrinsically so or at least have an intrinsic component which makes them beautiful.
An interesting question, but my inclination is to think aesthetic judgements depend on criteria that are valued by a culture or an individual, etc.
Maybe the closer an aspect of appreciation gets to being objective, the less it involves aethetics per se and the more it is related to function (and so quantifiable, such as when involving ergonometric factors, in the area of computer GUIs, for instance).
An individual may not be conscious of the "presets" brought to an aesthetic judgement, but arguments throughout history about what makes a woman beautiful, a man handsome, a painting great, a song good, or (these days) whether a computer interface sucks or not tend to suggest the criteria are not constant though time or shared universally at any given time.
Of course it can be maintained that the "intrisic component" of aesthetics is actually objective and its lack of recognition as such is a failing of societies and individuals, but maintaining this position in itself is a subjective act. So the argument goes beyond aesthetics and focuses on the nature of objectivity. Personally, it seems to me pretty much all examples of objectivity are only objective within a context that specifies rules, such as in mathematics.
There is a little book called "The abolition of man" by C.S. Lewis which you may find interesting.
Thanks, I'll have a look sometime.
Member since:
2007-07-30
By definition, aesthetic judgements are subjective.
I like Opera's interface. I use Firefox mainly for the dev tools and to test sites I'm doing, but much prefer Opera for browsing in general, due to all the positive points listed in the article. I've never been bothered by the "it's too different" aspect. I guess I like the differences. It hasn't been a problem to find new skins (which Opera can use immediately -- no restart needed) so in that regard too there's really no problem. My point is just to emphasize the subjectivity of interface design. To some people, Opera does feel better to use than any other browser.
-- Gary
Edited 2008-01-31 01:12 UTC