Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 26th Feb 2008 21:29 UTC
Richard Stallman, industry activist and founder of the Free Software Foundation has - once again - relinquished his role as maintainer of the phenomenally successful GNU Extensible, Customizable, Display Editor (Emacs). The news was slipped out on the Emacs developers' forum and Stallman explained his reasons in a later interview.
Thread beginning with comment 302509
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE[5]: Comment by tyrione
by Mark Williamson on Wed 27th Feb 2008 02:45
in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by tyrione"
Member since:2005-07-06
As Linus quipped the other day, "User space is **so** easy!".
To be fair, writing software such as compilers and debuggers and C libraries isn't the easy part of userspace coding and is arguably comparably difficult to kernelspace work. The tools that usually fill this niche on Linux are all from the GNU project.
RE[5]: Comment by tyrione
by da_Chicken on Wed 27th Feb 2008 13:35
in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by tyrione"
Member since:2006-01-01
As Linus quipped the other day, "User space is **so** easy!".
So, why haven't Linus and his gang written a user space to complement their kernel yet, if it's **so** easy? And why haven't they written a C standard library, a C compiler and a debugger for their "LinuxOS"? Surely they know that a Unix system needs both a kernel and a user space before people can actually use it, and also that you can't develop either of these if you don't have any programming tools.
So why has Linus's crew failed so miserably to write a complete Unix system, which they could rightfully call the "Linux operating system"? And why is Linus downplaying the significance of a project which has accomplished what they failed to do? Where's the Linux user land? And where are the Linux development tools? Well? It's 2008. And we're still waiting.
But seriously, the HURD kernel hasn't been a priority for the GNU project pretty much for the same reason why the user land and the development tools haven't been a priority for the Linux kernel developers. The GNU system doesn't necessarily need HURD because the GNU system and the Linux kernel put together already comprise a free/libre Unix-like system.
The important point here is that the main goal of the GNU project was never just to create a microkernel-based Unix-like system (as your comment seems to suggest). Instead, the main goal that the GNU project has pursued from the very beginning has been to create a Unix-like system that is made entirely of free/libre software. And, with the addition of the Linux kernel, the GNU project has successfully accomplished this goal.
There's really no need for the Linux developers to write their own versions of the GNU user land or the GNU programming tools when the GNU project has already provided those. And, for the same exact reason, it doesn't make much sense for the GNU project to work their butt off just to write their own version of a free/libre kernel. Still, I've heard that the HURD kernel has been more or less usable for some time now, but it's just not nearly as good or stable as the Linux kernel.
RE[6]: Comment by tyrione
by WereCatf on Wed 27th Feb 2008 13:59
in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by tyrione"
Member since:2006-02-15
So why has Linus's crew failed so miserably to write a complete Unix system, which they could rightfully call the "Linux operating system"? And why is Linus downplaying the significance of a project which has accomplished what they failed to do? Where's the Linux user land? And where are the Linux development tools? Well? It's 2008. And we're still waiting.
A note: Linus never had any intentions whatsoever of writing all the userland also. The plan was right from the beginning to port any existing software and use that. As such they haven't failed anything, they've achieved what they intended to. GNU Hurd however is a project that was set out to create a kernel along with userland. They still have a long way to go regarding the kernel.
Recent Original Stories
Recent Comments
Headlines
Random Comments
Random Stories
Random OS Link
Member since:
2005-07-24
And if we could eat rocks, we could use them for food.
It's 2008. And we're still waiting.
The FSF has accomplished much, but has a penchant for laying claim to even more... while downplaying the significance of the projects which have accomplished what they failed to do, despite having a 7 year head start, in general, and a 1 year head start with HURD, in particular. Namely, getting a usable kernel out to crown their "GNU OS".[1]
Richard urges people to give his organization credit for its work, while failing to give others due credit for their amazing, and apparently supergnustical feats.
As Linus quipped the other day, "User space is **so** easy!".
[1] Work on GNU OS started 23 years ago, I believe. There was a failed attempt to adapt a kernel from a prexisting project. And work began on the HURD in 1990.
Edited 2008-02-27 01:15 UTC