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>I was giving Ritalin when I was a child... because I am what I am.. namely, hyperactive.

There are even countries which tread such things with electric shock therapy. So where is the point? It's to _some_ degree nonsense. Of course there are certain hallucinogens as _last_ resort, like the mentioned methylphenidat. But just for fun to try something new or to extend some abilities? It's crazy and people tolerating or promoting it are crazy too. Drugs _are_ drugs with some exceptions for really ill people.

Just to point out, Methylphenidate is a Central Nervous System stimulant, not a hallucinogen.

(Just because a small segment of people have hallucinations as a side effect doesn't make it a hallucinogen, as that's not its primary action. I got hallucinations when I shot-gunned 12 redbulls one night - going to peg that as a hallucinogen?

Edited 2008-04-11 00:53 UTC

I remember when I was at school, kids who were hyperactive were just seen as kids 'with a lot of spirit' or 'very excitable' - there was never any need to drug up them up to the eye balls with medicine. Good old fashion running around at the park, playing rugby, bull rush and other past times worked all that excess energy out of their system; and we had as much 'additives' and 'sugars' in our foods.

Its (sugar and additives) been shown that time and time again, that these have NO EFFECT on children. It is all about discipline and how the parents act. Heck, I would call myself an incredibly crap parent, but apparently when I look after kids, they are well behaved after them being with me; what do I do? I treat them like little adults. I don't talk to kids in childish language, I give them responsibility, and make them think about what they've done wrong rather than simply the typical politically correct 'time out'.



Yeap, its all about finding what YOU are passionate at. Who gives a shit about what everyone else thinks; do what you are passionate about. You'll find that if you're passionate about something, you'll be happy to put in the long hours without any need to take any drugs.

Then again, it goes back to this *STUPID* idea created by the politically correct that "you can be anything you want" - WRONG! if you don't have the natural ability or inclination towards something, you will suck no matter how hard you work at it. It is delusional thinking that some how a person with an IQ of 100 can ever be a rocket scientist.

People have talents, people have a natural ability in a particular area. Don't create this hocus-pocus bullcrap that some how you can turn someone from an average employee into a manager. I've seen it happen, people who have been in organisations for 10 years, no inclination towards management - being pushed into the position of being a manager! its stupidity in action!

For me, I *KNOW* I suck at maths, and no matter how many hours I spent trying to study it, it never gelled. Now I do know what I am good at - abstract thinking which helps in the areas which I am interested in, Religious Studies and Philosophy.

To some how *THINK* that drug taking is the solution for failing to understand that you don't have talents in that certain area, its pathetic and it lacks commonsense. Know your limitations, know what you're capable of doing, and face that reality - stop trying to a rocket scientist when you abilities are geared towards being a landscaper.

Edited 2008-04-11 05:34 UTC

Bury that Axe....

It appeared that at school I had 'no natural talent' for languages, and was advised against going to university because I wasn't really up to it.

Guess what, things change, experience opens up new paths, and I now hold a PhD in comparative German-British history from a Russell Group university (which kind of requires that you know die deutsche Sprache to a fairly intimate degree). I got First Class marks from the get go, from the BA onwards.

Would you rather live in a caste system? That's pretty good at making sure people know what they can or cannot become, at dictating what apparent 'natural talents' are present in any individual.

I am no Superman but I sure as hell won't listen to homilies from other people telling me how good I am at something. I'll find out for myself, thanks all the same. I may just surprise myself (again), that way.

Edited - PS Admins, the last two posts I have submitted have turned up immediately with two votes against them. It's nice to be appreciated but unless this is a new weighting system I have missed information on, you may want to check out the site software, thanks.

Edited 2008-04-11 08:55 UTC

I disagree and have seen several examples to the contrary. For example one person I knew showed no real aptitude for math and failed first year mathematical analysis god knows how many times at university. But for whatever reason he wanted to be a mathematician so he refused to give up and kept working on it. And while he'll probably never be a great mathematician, he at least got good enough to get his Masters and be offered a PhD position at a fairly prestigious university.

Don't underestimate the power of sheer bloodymindedness. Passion and interest are far more important that natural aptitude. As a counterpoint to the above story I met several people at university who figured they'd go for a math degree, not because they where passionate about it, but because they had a natural aptitude for math, got straight A's through highschool without having to study and figured to math at university would be the easy for them. Long story short, most of them failed most of their exams and had dropped out by the end of the first year or second year.

In fact one of those people was me. I found math and physics easy throughout high school, yet dropped out of physics at university with horrible grades because I found I had no passion or interest for the subject. So I gave up on academia and spent a few years doing low level sysadmin and programming jobs instead. Later through I series of events I found my passion for math rekindled and headed back to university where I this time around managed to get my Masters in mathematics without any significant problem, because this time I really wanted it and enjoyed the subject.


Funny you should say that, because if I was to make a list of things you had to be good at to be good at math, abstract thinking would easily top the list. So as such I don't think it's that you suck at math per se. it's probably more likely a combination of bad teaching and a lack of passion and interest from your side. Which is perfectly cool, because if everybody was good at math I'd never get a job.

Bravo!

You're spot on. I was diagnosed "mild to moderate case of ADD" as a kid.

You should have seen the look on the "Doctors" face when I looked him straight in the eye as a 6th grader and said, "Bullshit. You're just jealous that my brain works faster than yours. Now you're going to drug me so I'll fit into your little box labeled 'normal'. I don't want to be normal. I'm better than normal, my brain is faster than yours, and you'd rather drug me than admit that you're slow."

I was put on Cylert, which gave me the most debilitating headaches I've ever had, made me a virtual zombie, and left me feeling 'slow' _all_the_time_.

The strangest thing was that my critical thinking and reasoning skills went to hell in a handbasket, and fast. I was in the advanced math classes, and started failing tests. Not just one or two, -all- of them. Even though I was (for once in my life) doing my homework. I started experimenting with the medicine, and was able to draw correlation between taking the medicine for a few days, getting headaches, and failing tests.

Funny thing, if I didn't take the medicine for a few days I'd quit doing my homework, but I'd get high B's and A's on all the tests...

I found Newsweek magazine articles that listed the most reported side-effect of that medicine was migraine headaches, and reduced reasoning abilities. I left it out on the counter for my parents to see. The next day, I flushed the pills in a grand act of defiance right in front of them.

I never took another 'pill' for "ADD". That lovely mythical bullshit explanation of a 'disorder' that doesn't exist, and behavior or thought-patterns that are in many ways beneficial.

I do self-medicate with caffeine to some extent. Okay, I'm a caffeine addict. I force myself through withdrawal every few months so I can start back on smaller doses of coffee... :-p The caffeine helps me focus on uninteresting material with the same level of rigor that I can focus on things I find highly interesting.

And let me tell you, when I find something interesting, just -try- and keep me from thinking about it.

Productivity wise, caffeine is a god-send for those mundane, boring tasks.

What math mainly is, is abstraction (along with logical reasoning). Religion, on the other hand, has much less to do with abstraction and almost nothing at all to do with logical reasoning.