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Just a further question, what seems to be implied in what you have said is that Hochdeutsch/Standarddeutsch doesn't appear to have the integrating effect on the orthographical level that one might surmise (given as you say the differing length of vowel sounds in dialect-speech). Or has Standarddeutsch always been overplayed in this respect?
I hope I can express this in an understandable way, but I will try:
The rules how to pronounce words are given by the german stage language (deutsche Bühnensprache). It is based on the standard orthography. This corresponds to what we call new high german (Neuhochdeutsch). It is the (mostly) mandatory base for language considerations.
Dialect influenced pronounciation can be transferred into written form, but it needs the use of incorrectly written words.
Some examples:
Stage language: "Ach, ich glaube, da kommt eine Straßenbahn."
Saxonian: "Ei nu, ä isch gloub dä gommd ä Stroosnbohn."
Bavarian: "Mei, i gloab da kimmt a Straßnbahn."
Of course, none of the deviating words occurs in a dictionary. :-) Most dialects have the character to have the new high german as a common base which forms the rules. But still, language is a living thing, it changes due to its use, and this is done by the people speaking and writing, not by stupid or old-nazi regulation fanatics who just want to sell new dictionaries every year. That's why the standard (unified) orthography (Einheitsorthographie, Einheitsschreibung), incorrectly often called "old orthography" (according to a timeline, it's still the newest one), is the easiest to understand and to constitute according to its correctness (this is where Newspeakers fail). Standard orthography is, by the way, becoming more and more popular again. People who are writing books or have to tell you something substancial still use it due to its better readability and liability for errors (grammar, punctuation, hyphenation).
To get a little little bit on topic, i. e. it has something to do with operating systems, I'd suggest introducing a new language code. There are already de_DE, de_CH and de_AT, why not make de_DE conforming to standard orthograhy and add de_NS for german Neusprech? :-) (Germans will notice the fine fitting connotation of "NS").
Non-native speakers of German just find it bewildering, and in my case I simply plough on as before...
You cannot conclude the written form from the spoken form, and maybe that's what makes the german language a bit complicated. Due to the many "new", constantly changing and contradicting suggestions for spelling, it won't get easier.
When you're learning a language, your first step usually is the spoken form, not the written one. And because they differ in many cases, German language must show up like strange spellings from another Whoniverse. :-)
Anyway, great response
I would have never imagined that I would discuss such a topic here. And I'm sure I never used that much german words in an english speaking discussion board. :-)
Maybe it's the same the other way round. I know funny things how Germans pronounce english words and what they read from certain sentences, I have seen "ReiserFS" as "rice fat" and "language" as "lagoon". Or from my russian classes, "I am used trousers". :-)
And all this because Thom had to use a font that did not contain an Eszett! I hope all the readers here are willing to forgive me my dedication to my native language. :-)
Edited 2008-04-15 20:40 UTC






Member since:
2006-06-02
I think I stand corrected and much better informed ;-).
Just a further question, what seems to be implied in what you have said is that Hochdeutsch/Standarddeutsch doesn't appear to have the integrating effect on the orthographical level that one might surmise (given as you say the differing length of vowel sounds in dialect-speech). Or has Standarddeutsch always been overplayed in this respect?
Non-native speakers of German just find it bewildering, and in my case I simply plough on as before...
Anyway, great response