Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 15th Apr 2008 20:06 UTC, submitted by melkor
"I came away from the second annual Linux Foundation Collaboration Summit with mixed feelings. I mean, it's hard not to support the group that pays Linus Torvalds to spend his time continuing to lead the poster-boy project for free and open source software. But at the same time, those golden chains are my biggest concern about the Linux Foundation."
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RE[4]: Thats normal your uninformed ...
by Moulinneuf on Thu 17th Apr 2008 02:38
in reply to "RE[3]: Thats normal your uninformed ..."
Member since:2005-07-06
One does not need to be a member to work on advancing Desktop Linux.
True , But it's not the point I made. I said none of the example he gave are members , that's a double point and should raise a flag as to a serious problem :
1) None of the hardware makers who are members where named in the example. ( that's bad )
2) Those who do the work should be members or at minimum affiliates. ( that's really bad )
The flag is why most of the desktop and company that work on the GNU/Linux desktops are not members ? With a 20k entry fee for first membership level ...
And companies like ZaReason and IYCC certainly do work on that.
You got this in reverse ZaReason and IYCC are NOT the problem , the Linux foundation membership process is and it's management is to blame and as to correct the problem. The process is exclusive and seen as elitist and as an entry fee that keep people away.
In other words : why would ZaReason and IYCC refuse to be a Linux foundation member when they sale and service and develop on GNU/Linux ?
Right and when you look at the second ... http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/Desktop_April_Summit_2008_Agenda
If you got the wrong impression and that your understanding was that **nobody** worked on it , or that anyone targeted discussed the developer , you where mistaken , the problem was with what was done on the agenda and it's priority for the decision takers.
"So you are now ... throughout the Summit?"
I said :
"can see that desktop is not being discuss and a priority on the agenda"
let me rephrase that so that you get my point : the developer worked on the workstation agenda , the decision makers discussed server and workstation , one can see that the normal user desktop and it's problems where not discussed and a priority on the agenda.
Dell, HP, Lenovo and others ... vendors working on Linux drivers.
Well I will object to the *now* and the *offering* part. Why ? Because they have been ofering workstation for a long time , and hidden limited desktop models offer for along time too , the problem is with the limited offering and that they don't do the desktop offer globally for everyone and that they are hidden or not priced matched.
In other word if it take 5 minute of hunting down on a website to finally find a product and that the Microsoft counter part is right on the first page and cheaper , guess what they get , people just don't know it exist or they give up trying to find it ...
"No, they mean ... migrating to SLED."
Yes because one can order a peugeot desktop at best buy everyday ... What you described is called a workstation , the machine was created specifically for peugeot to do work on it.
"One of the case ... to highschool students."
Another Walmart desktop offer from Dell ... Again those are workstation.
"Linux Foundation ... Network-Manager."
Desktop user are all crying for yet another workgroup server so that they can all collaborate on project togheters .... I was cynical here ...
If I wanted to be really lame I would ask how the Zune integrate with Lotus notes ? ...
"Not to forget that Linux ... several free software projects."
That's going to be real conforting to the normal desktop user who is failing to install Ubuntu on is new DELL that the Linux foundation paid the travel expense of the developer so that they could discuss workstation problem and not pay for the missing driver that could make is desktop computer new AMD/ATI graphic card work perfectly OOTB and that peugeot got there workstation perfectly working.
Those are the desktop features of the competition :
http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/300.html
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/det...
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/seeit/defaul...
Your not even discussing desktop integration with a direct ally ( who is not even a member .. ) :
http://www.openmoko.com/
But I guess peugeot and Whitfield School could not use an iPhone competitor that integrate perfectly with the desktop ...
Quanta, Compal, Wistron, Inventec and Asus That's the top ODM laptop/notebook maker , not members ...
HP, Acer, Dell, Toshiba, Lenovo, Fujitsu-Siemens, Sony Asustek, Apple. That's the top notebook OEM half are not members.
Joe Barr talked about keyboards/track pad/sundry rodents ( mouse ):
Just with keyboard :
Microsoft
KeyTronic
Adesso
Logitech Inc.
Spec-Research
Anyware
A4Tech
APC
APEVIA (Aspire)
Ark
ATRIX
Belkin
BTC
Bytecc
Creative Labs
CTA DIGITAL
Cyber Snipa
DCT Factory, Inc.
Enermax
FELLOWES
Gear Head
Gyration
Hewlett-Packard
HIPER
ideazon
INLAND
IOGEAR
i-rocks
Kensington
KINAMAX
Labtec
Lancor Technologies
Linkworld Electronics
Lite-On
Logisys Computer
Macally (Mace Group)
NMEDIAPC
OFFSPRING TECHNOLOGIES INC.
QUMAX CORPORATION
Raidmax
RAZER
Revoltec
Rosewill
Saitek
SolidTek
Sunbeam
Syba
Targus
Thermaltake
Trust
Vantec
VIZO Technology
Wolfking
Not Members ...
You start to get the point ? People want to open there desktop computer related product and find the GNU/Linux OS ( rescue CD perfect fit for the hardware ) and driver ( on DVD / CD ) inside the box.
They don't care about corporat offers they cant get because there not corporations.
Edited 2008-04-17 02:42 UTC
RE[5]: Thats normal your uninformed ...
by anda_skoa on Thu 17th Apr 2008 14:28
in reply to "RE[4]: Thats normal your uninformed ..."
Member since:2005-07-07
If you got the wrong impression and that your understanding was that **nobody** worked on it , or that anyone targeted discussed the developer , you where mistaken , the problem was with what was done on the agenda and it's priority for the decision takers.
Official program says two out of three days and you are considering this as not on the agenda?
let me rephrase that so that you get my point : the developer worked on the workstation agenda , the decision makers discussed server and workstation , one can see that the normal user desktop and it's problems where not discussed and a priority on the agenda.
I am sorry, but this is still not true. Several of the companies present at DAM have non-cooporate customers and were very focused on their customers needs.
The representatives of free software projects are obviously working for all their users.
Well I will object to the *now* and the *offering* part.
While I certainly agree that they could improve on their offers, at least Dell undisbutably does offer consumer machines with pre-loaded Linux and even the offerings of HP or Lenovo which are targeted at corporate customers, do send the appropriate message to hardware vendors that Linux support is a "must have".
Yes because one can order a peugeot desktop at best buy everyday
Peugot sells cars, not computers.
What you described is called a workstation , the machine was created specifically for peugeot to do work on it.
No. These are not special purpose workstations nor are they getting some custom Linux build. The machines are general purpose Office computers and the migration is done by their internal IT staff.
Another Walmart desktop offer from Dell ... Again those are workstation.
I wouldn't call students laptops that they use for courses, homework and field assignments "workstations".
These are real consumer level laptops.
""Linux Foundation ... Network-Manager."
Desktop user are all crying for yet another workgroup server so that they can all collaborate on project togheters
"
You need to work on your quoting.
The point is that availability of software like Lotus Notes enabled coporate customers to migration desktops to Linux, in turn emphasising the need for vendor driver support for Linux, in turn helping the consumer customers.
That's going to be real conforting to the normal desktop user who is failing to install Ubuntu on is new DELL that the Linux foundation paid the travel expense of the developer so that they could discuss workstation problem and not pay for the missing driver that could make is desktop computer new AMD/ATI graphic card work perfectly OOTB and that peugeot got there workstation perfectly working.
I have no idea where you get this "workstation" thing from.
Fact is that people from GNOME, KDE, Mozilla, etc. where there.
Fact is these people are working on software that is either used by both corporate and consumer users (e.g. Firefox) or even just consumers (e.g. Amarok).
Fact is that sponsoring the participation of these developers helps all kinds of users.
And, as I already wrote above, even corporate installation increase demand at OEM level, which increases demand fpr Linux support on manufacturer level, including peripherals.
As for the example of AMD/ATI drivers, if you have a look at the Peugot slides the hardware accelerated compositing desktop is one of their important features.
But I guess peugeot and Whitfield School could not use an iPhone competitor that integrate perfectly with the desktop ...
I am not sure a school has any control over which mobile device is being purchased by their students.
Quanta, Compal, Wistron, Inventec and Asus That's the top ODM laptop/notebook maker , not members ...
HP, Acer, Dell, Toshiba, Lenovo, Fujitsu-Siemens, Sony Asustek, Apple. That's the top notebook OEM half are not members.
HP, Acer, Dell, Toshiba, Lenovo, Fujitsu-Siemens, Sony Asustek, Apple. That's the top notebook OEM half are not members.
I am afraid I don't understand your fixiation on tihs membership thing.
You start to get the point ?
The point of listing vendors of peripheral devices?
Or their non-association with a software related foundation?
I guess not.
People want to open there desktop computer related product and find the GNU/Linux OS ( rescue CD perfect fit for the hardware ) and driver ( on DVD / CD ) inside the box.
Exactly.
Like basically all the participants in the desktop workgroup.
They don't care about corporat offers they cant get because there not corporations.
Also true, but theses offerings help their needs as well, see above.
Member since:
2005-07-07
One does not need to be a member to work on advancing Desktop Linux.
And companies like ZaReason and IYCC certainly do work on that.
https://www.linux-foundation.org/events/collaboration/program
Right and when you look at the second and third day, there is section called "Desktop Architects Meeting 5" linked to http://www.linux-foundation.org/en/Desktop_April_Summit_2008_Agenda
Two days full of desktop related program.
So you are now agreeing that there was infact quite some desktop related things going on throughout the Summit?
It's the same for all of the recognised members.
Dell, HP, Lenovo and others are offering Linux on Desktop and Laptop computers now, which gets hardware component vendors working on Linux drivers.
Truth be told what is called *desktop* by the Linux foundation and it's members is really workstation.
No, they mean desktop, as in coporate office desktop, e.g. the kind of workload Peugot has on the 20000 machines they are migrating to SLED.
One of the case studies - Whitfield School - is about a successful rollout of Linux based laptops to highschool students.
Linux Foundation members like IBM might not work directly on common desktop items, but making Lotus Notes available for Linux is often the cornerstone of a comporate desktop adoption, which in turn gets members like Novell/Red Hat work on common desktop items like Network-Manager.
Not to forget that Linux Foundation funds, provided by its members, have been used to cover travel and accomodation of summit attendiees from several free software projects.