Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 16th Apr 2008 20:09 UTC, submitted by jello
Apple Two days ago, the news that a company called Psystar was offering a Mac clone made quite some waves across the net. They were offering their Open Computer, a standard x86 machine, which they could pre-load with Mac OS X Leopard."We're not breaking any laws,", they insisted. ComputerWorld and The Guardian did some digging around, and found some discrepancies.
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RE[3]: But why really care?
by qortra on Wed 16th Apr 2008 23:48 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: But why really care?"
qortra
Member since:
2005-10-05

The issue is that they are actually stupid enough to try to sell it.


Why is it so stupid? As long as they are legitimate, I think it's quite clever. Just because avid reader of osx86 forums is able to hack together a system using torrents and carefully selected parts doesn't mean that everybody else can. Maybe some people just want to try OSX without paying $1200 (for an iMac) or buying a Mac Mini. You can call me cheap, but the price of hardware is by far the biggest reason that I've stayed away from Apple desktops.

Honestly, the owners of this company might be people with nothing to lose, and whether they succeed or fail, this will put them on the map. Being renowned (even as a failure) is invaluable.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: But why really care?
by macUser on Thu 17th Apr 2008 01:27 in reply to "RE[3]: But why really care?"
macUser Member since:
2006-12-15

"The issue is that they are actually stupid enough to try to sell it.

Maybe some people just want to try OSX without paying $1200 (for an iMac) or buying a Mac Mini.
"

That's what Apple stores are for... ;) No, no just kidding... I think this is pretty funny... To save a couple of extra dollars you're willing to pay for a built system on which nothing is guaranteed to work.

Vunderful...

Since your time is not so valuable, it seems like building your own box would be even a cheaper entry into the Mac OS X """experience""" (triple quote for emphasis), and when things don't work right, you can complain about how """broken""" the Mac OS really is...

Sounds like a win for everybody.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: But why really care?
by David on Thu 17th Apr 2008 01:58 in reply to "RE[4]: But why really care?"
David Member since:
1997-10-01

To save a couple of extra dollars you're willing to pay for a built system on which nothing is guaranteed to work.


Yes, but if it doesn't work with OSX in the long run, you can always just install Windows or Linux on it.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: But why really care?
by Doc Pain on Thu 17th Apr 2008 11:29 in reply to "RE[4]: But why really care?"
Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

Since your time is not so valuable, it seems like building your own box would be even a cheaper entry into the Mac OS X """experience""" (triple quote for emphasis), and when things don't work right, you can complain about how """broken""" the Mac OS really is...


You're mentioning a valid point here. Let's just assume the "Clone-Macs" are going to be sold, people buy it, and then they encounter problems, maybe during an update that fails and renders the system unusable, or while running a program that constantly crashed. What would be the content of the complain you're going to hear? "I just bought this Apple thing, and Mac OS X is complete bullshit! It crashes all the time and nothing no work!" So this may lead into bad publicity for Apple. They are usually famous for the "computing experience" they sell (hardware + software), but if a similar product occurs that is - for the average customer - too difficult to distinguish from their own product, they will be blamed for things that fail, no matter if these problems don't occur on their own Mac systems.

I still hope that's not going to happen. Please get me right: In principle, I welcome the idea of a "low cost Mac alternative", but to be honest... I'd rather buy a "real" Apple system if it's up to real work; but for entertainment and exploring the Mac OS X world, they may be good starter's alternatives. - Just assumptions, nota bene.

Reply Parent Score: 2

StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Since your time is not so valuable, it seems like building your own box would be even a cheaper entry into the Mac OS X """experience""" (triple quote for emphasis), and when things don't work right, you can complain about how """broken""" the Mac OS really is...


Is OS X really so fragile and poorly-designed that it's incapable of running on any hardware that isn't explicitly Apple-"blessed"?

If that's true (and not just a lazy excuse favoured by Mac fans), then that sounds pretty """"broken"""" to me.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: But why really care?
by apoclypse on Thu 17th Apr 2008 02:15 in reply to "RE[3]: But why really care?"
apoclypse Member since:
2007-02-17

the last paragraph of your post is exactly what I think is wrong with our society today. People would rather be notorious than be known for doing something of worth of innovative or different. Paris Hilton is known is she worth more than someone who has actually done something of worth with their life. Rant over.

Anyway. I argue that you are not getting the same Apple experience if you are not using Apple hardware. Its just the way I see things. Why? Because I've known Apple nearly all of my life. My first experience with computers were Apple computers. What apple sells is the experience of using an apple computer. What type of experience are you going to have when you have an issue with Psystar hardware? Anyway my point is that I have a general distaste for what they are doing it just seesm underhanded on their part.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: But why really care?
by gfx1 on Thu 17th Apr 2008 06:58 in reply to "RE[4]: But why really care?"
gfx1 Member since:
2006-01-20

It's the same but faster hardware then in a mac,
so the experience will be the same but faster.
Only problem is that steve's next update will require some work.
There is nothing special about apple hardware, bog standard and sometimes slower pc hardware because they value form over function, the macmini only takes laptopdrives and they are slower and smaller than a decent 3,5" version.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[5]: But why really care?
by segedunum on Thu 17th Apr 2008 11:51 in reply to "RE[4]: But why really care?"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

I argue that you are not getting the same Apple experience if you are not using Apple hardware.

Some people would love to get away from Apple hardware, and more specifically, Apple Care and support. Oh, and they'd love to be able to turn the thing off properly when problems occur.

I don't so much feel as if I'm operating a Mac, as I am there sharing the Mac experience.

What type of experience are you going to have when you have an issue with Psystar hardware?

You do what other people do. You have this thing called an OEM you go to, or you buy some hardware and do it yourself cheaper and faster. It's an interesting concept.

Reply Parent Score: 2

v RE[4]: But why really care?
by kaiwai on Thu 17th Apr 2008 04:55 in reply to "RE[3]: But why really care?"
RE[5]: But why really care?
by Thom_Holwerda on Thu 17th Apr 2008 07:52 in reply to "RE[4]: But why really care?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

You're complaining about a piddle $1200? geeze, if I was over there, I'd buy you the damn thing; $1200 is chump change. If you can't afford it, maybe it speaks highly of stupid decisions you made in your life which results in the lack of cash flow today.


That's a lot of arrogance for one post.

I live in one of the richest countries in the world, but 1200 USD is still a heck of a lot of money. That's nine months' worth of full-coverage health insurance. More than three months' worth of rent for my apartment. Half a year's worth of university.

Maybe you're rolling in riches, but that doesn't go for everyone. Insulting someone for finding 1200USD a lot of money is... Well, only someone still living with his parents, with everything cared and privided for, would say such a thing. And if you don't, then you're just an idiot (offence definitely intended).

Reply Parent Score: 6

JonathanBThompson Member since:
2006-05-26

With all due respect, not everyone has been working at a job that pays well for long enough, and has enough cash coming in when compared to expenses they need to account for to just drop $1200 to get a new machine. There's not enough information available about the poster you're replying to, to really understand their current financial situation, and whether or not they'd reasonably be expected to have that be a "casual" amount of cash to drop on something, although one could argue that an iMac is an investment. But, if you don't really need all the hardware that comes standard on the iMac, or the form factor (perhaps you have space constraints as to what you can get and where to put it: the iMac actually works well for that, really, and is quiet) then you also would have a harder time justifying paying the larger amount of money. Not all people in all countries pay the same or relative amounts for the same thing: some countries have much higher tax rates than others, leaving very little cash in the pockets of ordinary citizens, although more things are taken care of for a lower out-of-pocket-if-you-don't-count-taxes price. The US is a great example of where in most cases, compared to quite a few EU countries, the overall federal/state taxes are fairly low, but health insurance, school and rent can vary widely and be very expensive, as very little public college education is free or low-cost (you need to be in certain states and qualify for the state-paid or state-subsidized education) and rent can vary wildly, and proper health insurance? Oh my, that's a can and a half of worms for expense! Now, if you also happen to have a family to take care of, and you have medical/health issues, that all adds up quite quickly. Just maybe, the budget that's available says that the time spent futzing around with something that's somewhat of a crap shoot is a better bargain, all depending on the overall resources, computer experience, computer needs of the person. If you can afford the cash, sure, it's far more cost-effective if you put a high enough value on your time to spend the $1200 and get a known-good working system that Apple provides, but if you're only making minimum wage (I think it's currently around $6.85 in the US right now, not sure: Washington state has a higher one, due to cost of living differences, and I've not been minimum wage for years) and you don't have the energy/time to work anymore hours, but you can put some hours into the hobby/project of a Hackintosh that fulfills your needs, well, that may actually be a better decision.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[5]: But why really care?
by segedunum on Thu 17th Apr 2008 11:44 in reply to "RE[4]: But why really care?"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

You're complaining about a piddle $1200? geeze, if I was over there, I'd buy you the damn thing; $1200 is chump change. If you can't afford it, maybe it speaks highly of stupid decisions you made in your life which results in the lack of cash flow today.

Spoken like a typical Mac idiot on one of those forums few computer users read, let along sign up to.

It's called economics. When you have lots of companies producing similar, compatible, products the price comes down and, lo and behold, more people will buy the cheaper products. That's why Apple switched to Intel! The tide will come in and out, no matter what certain peoples' protestations are. The lack of that kind of environment for Mac clones means that Mac users are still very much a small and insignificant, but very noisy, slice of the pie on both servers and desktops.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: But why really care?
by ssa2204 on Thu 17th Apr 2008 12:20 in reply to "RE[4]: But why really care?"
ssa2204 Member since:
2006-04-22

You're complaining about a piddle $1200? geeze, if I was over there, I'd buy you the damn thing; $1200 is chump change. If you can't afford it, maybe it speaks highly of stupid decisions you made in your life which results in the lack of cash flow today.


While I certainly would personally not waste my money on this junk, allow me to say this. $1200 is nothing to you? Well how about I give you my P.O. Box and you either send me a check ASAP, or otherwise apologize for such a f**king idiotic post.

FYI, this is what $1200 can get you in the US:
5 Day all inclusive Cancun in May
Nice weekend in Vegas
42" HP LCD TV
4 High Performance 17" Goodyear tires
Month's mortage payment
1/3 Health Insurance for the year
17" HP Laptop
3 months groceries
Replacement exhaust system for my car
Round trip 1st class to Fort Myers/Tampa
Year electricity bill

Starting to get the picture now, or do I need to spell it out any clearer?

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[5]: But why really care?
by WereCatf on Thu 17th Apr 2008 12:23 in reply to "RE[4]: But why really care?"
WereCatf Member since:
2006-02-15

You're complaining about a piddle $1200? geeze, if I was over there, I'd buy you the damn thing; $1200 is chump change.

I'd love to see you actually stay true to word. You don't even need to be there, all you need is to either order the thing online for him, or just provide the $1200 via PayPal. Let's just see if you do what you say you'd do, shall we? You SHOULD be easily able to afford it, it's chump change after all..

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[5]: But why really care?
by OMRebel on Thu 17th Apr 2008 13:44 in reply to "RE[4]: But why really care?"
OMRebel Member since:
2005-11-14

Hey kaiwai - why don't you prove you're not all talk and exchange emails addresses, and go ahead and order it for him? You're such a hot shot, then go ahead and do it. Otherwise, why don't you stop proving to everyone what an ignorant ass you are?

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[4]: But why really care?
by Manik on Thu 17th Apr 2008 10:34 in reply to "RE[3]: But why really care?"
Manik Member since:
2005-07-06

whether they succeed or fail, this will put them on the map.

The problem being that, for the moment, they aren't even on Miami's map.

Reply Parent Score: 3