Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 18th Apr 2008 11:38 UTC
Windows When Vista was released, and the first reviews started to trickle in, it became apparent that Vista was a massive release - not only in terms of money spent on it by Microsoft and the amount of promotion, but also the operating system itself. It was huge, and it felt as such too. Despite what many have been saying the past year, Vista is, in fact, much more than just XP with a new theme. Basically every framework and feature has been rewritten, lots of new ones have been added, and, according to some, the process of modularisation has started with Vista (and Server 2008). It may come as no surprise that all these changes resulted in a whole boatload of bugs and breakage, which led many people to conclude that Vista was simply not as "done" as it should have been when released. Steve Ballmer confirmed these sentiments in a speech at Microsoft's Most Valuable Professionals conference in Seattle.
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RE: meh
by lemur2 on Fri 18th Apr 2008 12:05 UTC in reply to "meh"
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

What's the big deal, he is just saying what we know and wanted to hear...


Well ... he said it was big (and it is ... on disk the bare Vista OS is ~ three times the size of a full Linux distribution including applications) ... but even he apparently doesn't know what is in it that is taking up all that room ... or at least, if he does know, he isn't telling us.

It is sure hard to figure out what features it actually has that takes up all that size on disk.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[2]: meh
by Haicube on Fri 18th Apr 2008 12:12 in reply to "RE: meh"
Haicube Member since:
2005-08-06

Okey, repeat after me

"Vista is not linux, vista is not linux, vista is not linux".

95% of the computer market are aware of Linux existence, we know it is said to be every users wet dream.

Now I'm not dreaming about it despite knowing of it's existence... so can we stay on the topic of what Ballmer is talking about instead? Especially as Linux is just like Vista "work in progress"....

Big question is rather, isn't consumer marketing laws saying something about false marketing?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: meh
by Alleister on Fri 18th Apr 2008 12:29 in reply to "RE[2]: meh"
Alleister Member since:
2006-05-29

Vista is more a case of false development then false marketing. Do you think they had a choice? I doubt people would have been more happy to get Vista forced down their throat with their next computer if even Microsoft had been saying what Ballmer did say now.

Rewriting every feature from scrap that you already had means that they either were badly implemented or they were implemented in a way that they couldn't be integrated with other changes done to Windows.

Either way it has "amateurish" written all over it and it explains the lack of new features in Vista. I think the problem was that Microsofts development model just didn't work anymore for a project this big.

I don't want my OS rewritten all 6 Years, i want it upgraded in reasonable time in a reasonable way which means, Vista isn't for me and i have run out of patience for MS... i expect my Mac to arrive tomorrow, then it is good bye Windows.

Reply Parent Score: 10

RE[3]: meh
by lemur2 on Fri 18th Apr 2008 12:54 in reply to "RE[2]: meh"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Okey, repeat after me

"Vista is not linux, vista is not linux, vista is not linux".

95% of the computer market are aware of Linux existence, we know it is said to be every users wet dream.

Now I'm not dreaming about it despite knowing of it's existence... so can we stay on the topic of what Ballmer is talking about instead? Especially as Linux is just like Vista "work in progress"....

Big question is rather, isn't consumer marketing laws saying something about false marketing?


Sigh!

Here is what Ballmer apparently did say about Vista:
"We had some things that we can't just set the dial back, but I think people wish we could. Vista is bigger than XP. It's going to stay bigger than XP. We have to make sure it doesn't get bigger still, and that the performance and that the battery life and that the compatibility, we're driving on the things that we need to drive hard to improve."


OK Steve we get it. It is big, and you have to be careful not to make it bigger.

Steve, what you have utterly failed to explain is this ... why is it big? It doesn't (apparently, to the user anyway) actually DO anything much that XP didn't also do faster at a fraction of the size of Vista.

OK ... so can we now focus on that?

Reply Parent Score: 9

RE[3]: meh
by bornagainenguin on Fri 18th Apr 2008 13:21 in reply to "RE[2]: meh"
bornagainenguin Member since:
2005-08-07

[sigh...] I really didn't want to comment in this thread, since doing so means I'll lose the ability to mod people but I just had to respond to this...

Okey, repeat after me

"Vista is not linux, vista is not linux, vista is not linux".


Trust me, we know the difference! My Linux can run circles around Vista on lower end hardware while performing much of the same feats that Vista supposedly requires such a hardware upgrade to be able to do...

Oh and did I mention that my Linux uses less space while providing me with more apps?

So ummm, yeah not a problem on our end...

95% of the computer market are aware of Linux existence, we know it is said to be every users wet dream.


Wow! Really?? I hadn't really seen that trend, but that would be so cool...

Now I'm not dreaming about it despite knowing of it's existence... so can we stay on the topic of what Ballmer is talking about instead?


Umm...dude? You just said... Oh wait I see what you did there. Funny how no one in this article was even talking about Linux, wet dreams or etc until you brought them up... Nice try OP...

Especially as Linux is just like Vista "work in progress"....


Ummm... Linux may indeed be a work in progress but unlike Vista it's free--both in cost and in freedom.

Vista requires me to spend a minimum of $100 USD for an OEM copy (which may or may not actually be legitimate) and still not have all the 'wonderful' features Microsoft advertises Vista as having! No for that I've got to spend nearly three hundred dollars as well as having to do a total hardware replacement in order to get the same level performance I have now in either XP or Ubuntu...

As others have asked in this thread, what exactly is Vista actually doing that requires them to use so much resources? It can't be the basic day to day functioning of the OS, because others have managed to do all that at a fraction of the resources and look better while doing so!

Big question is rather, isn't consumer marketing laws saying something about false marketing?


On this at least we agree!

Why isn't some consumer body (or all of them really) standing up for the people they supposedly represent and demanding an answer to Vista?

Why hasn't some governing body complained about Microsoft's blatant and forced paid beta program?

Why has it suddenly become acceptable to make your customers pay for your broken OS with the claim it's a work in progress?

Inquiring minds would like to know!

--bornagainpenguin

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: meh
by autumnlover on Sun 20th Apr 2008 15:48 in reply to "RE[2]: meh"
autumnlover Member since:
2007-04-12

I must totally agree.

Hey, my dear fellow linuxians - isn't that Linux is also "work in progress"?

Isn't true that every PC / Mac / whatever (Amiga PPC? ;-) ) computer user on this planet AT LEAST heard of Linux, and many of them saw / tried it?

Why then 95% of the "computer user population" won't mind about changing "their" OS to Linux, despite it is free and - according to some - so perfect and flawless?

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that those 95% of "computer users" has better things to do in life, than full time sudy of the man pages?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: meh
by kaiwai on Fri 18th Apr 2008 13:15 in reply to "RE: meh"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

"What's the big deal, he is just saying what we know and wanted to hear...


Well ... he said it was big (and it is ... on disk the bare Vista OS is ~ three times the size of a full Linux distribution including applications) ... but even he apparently doesn't know what is in it that is taking up all that room ... or at least, if he does know, he isn't telling us.

It is sure hard to figure out what features it actually has that takes up all that size on disk.
"

100% agree; and for the same amount of space Vista uses up, you can have a full blown development installation with all the bells and whistles.

Now, some would claim its due to 'less drivers' - I call bull to those; Linux (like MacOS X, Solaris and *BSD's) include large number of generic drivers which developers build their own drivers on, without need to replicate large sections of code over and over and over again. It seems that in my experience, in the Windows world, a 40mb (or larger) driver download is considered 'acceptable'.

Reply Parent Score: 4