Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 19th Apr 2008 23:39 UTC, submitted by TheNerd
BeOS & Derivatives Every now and then, the Haiku mailing lists explode with emails about something called the distribution guidelines. The Haiku guys set up a set of guidelines with regards to use of the Haiku trademarks and logos; the "Haiku" name may not be used in the distribution's name, official trademarks and logos must be excluded, but the Haiku icons and artwork may be used. In addition to these cosmetic and trademark issues, the guidelines explain what is needed in order to receive the official "Haiku compatible" logo.
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Not a huge ordeal, really...
by umccullough on Sun 20th Apr 2008 04:52 UTC
umccullough
Member since:
2006-01-26

I know it probably seems like this may have been another "flamefest" on the Haiku mailing list, but really it was not.

Honestly, I thought this particular discussion went pretty well, and Karl was *very* understanding of the various opinions that were voiced. While this article seems to indicate that Jorge was "harsh" - his words really were re-enforcing what had already been committed to the guidelines. He was trying to uphold the standards that had already been put in place, and was pretty much spot-on.

The guidelines definitely were put in place to help discourage the creation of distros that "dilute" the Haiku brand. Nobody really wants to see Haiku turn into a bunch of 3rd party "me too" releases with minor changes, or a couple extra applications added.

However, I highly doubt the official Haiku release will include all the software necessary to use Haiku as a daily OS. It's extremely likely that you'll have to install extra software in order to get anything done (such as an office productivity suite, or even an IRC client).

In the world of open source, what Karl is doing is fine - assuming he has met the requirements for the guidelines while copyrights and licenses are maintained. Who knows, if for some reason Senryu were to become more popular than Haiku - perhaps that is where the community would thrive.

With Haiku's current state, there's really no reason to even consider this a sign of what's to come. Once Haiku has become stable and approaches something resembling a usable OS, I think the project will basically "solve" some of these issues with official releases. At that point, I figure many of these 3rd party "projects" to disappear.

Reply Score: 10

umccullough Member since:
2006-01-26

and Karl was *very* understanding of the various opinions that were voiced.


Responding to myself (yeah, lame, sorry about that):

Reflecting on this, I want to correct what I said. He seems to have been receptive. I'm not entirely sure he's been completely understanding of the opinions ;)

Just had to get that off my chest.

Reply Parent Score: 4

Valhalla Member since:
2006-01-24

well, I think the whole thing is sad. I personally enjoy trying out the weekly packs so I'm not exactly objective but for me it was just a great to be able to periodically try out a new build together with installed software with no more effort than a click.

I can't for the world see what negative aspects the existance of this (clearly marked as ALPHA software) image can have had on Haiku, the target audience is exactly the same as those who download the nighlty builds, only it makes it quicker/easier to try out Haiku in conjunction with third party software.

now it's clear from Koki's posts that users like me are not something he wishes to cater for, and that the whole idea of this complaint was to make the weekly pack to simply disappear. however since Karl does cater for users like me, instead of a Haiku image that clearly states with a popup that this is ALPHA software (which really isn't that confusing), he has now gone through the hoops of which the result is a new distro named Senryu (which is less confusing?).

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the existence of Haiku's distro rules, but they have the right to choose when and were to enforce them and doing so in this instance comes across as a simple attempt to shut down a weekly Haiku alpha image with pre-installed software, which in my opinion was counterproductive as I can't see in what way it could possibly have had a negative effect on the Haiku project.

I guess I really better start thinking of Haiku as Haiku Inc from now on, since in this atleast it really comes across as a true corporation rather than a open source project done for fun and passion.

Reply Parent Score: 2

TheNerd Member since:
2007-06-30

well, I think the whole thing is sad. I personally enjoy trying out the weekly packs so I'm not exactly objective but for me it was just a great to be able to periodically try out a new build together with installed software with no more effort than a click.


This is exactly why the Haikuware Weekly Superpack (now Senryu) was started. IMO and OS can't be successful by just allowing developers to test and fix it. Input is needed from early adopters like us who want to contribute but don't have the "programming" skills.

I can't for the world see what negative aspects the existance of this (clearly marked as ALPHA software) image can have had on Haiku, the target audience is exactly the same as those who download the nighlty builds, only it makes it quicker/easier to try out Haiku in conjunction with third party software.


I feel the same way

now it's clear from Koki's posts that users like me are not something he wishes to cater for, and that the whole idea of this complaint was to make the weekly pack to simply disappear. however since Karl does cater for users like me, instead of a Haiku image that clearly states with a popup that this is ALPHA software (which really isn't that confusing), he has now gone through the hoops of which the result is a new distro named Senryu (which is less confusing?).


I get this exact same feeling when I read Koki's posts. It seems like the Haiku Project (represented mostly by Koki) does not want anyone from "outside" to help with anything or try and provide a place for non-developers to gather and test software (i.e. Haikuware). I bet there have been a quite few bugs reported (and probably already fixed) by Senryu users and no one even knows the difference.

I'm not saying there's anything wrong with the existence of Haiku's distro rules, but they have the right to choose when and were to enforce them and doing so in this instance comes across as a simple attempt to shut down a weekly Haiku alpha image with pre-installed software, which in my opinion was counterproductive as I can't see in what way it could possibly have had a negative effect on the Haiku project.


IMO, the distro guidlines should be as follows: "Haiku is a registered trademark of Haiku, Inc. No usage of the name Haiku or any graphics included therein may be used for anything"

Having the guidelines posted on the Haiku site, to me at least, gives the impression that Haiku, Inc is willing to help the distro creators to implement them. I know now that this is not the case and the only reason for the guidelines is to discourage distribution creation right from the get-go.

I guess I really better start thinking of Haiku as Haiku Inc from now on, since in this at least it really comes across as a true corporation rather than a open source project done for fun and passion.


I'm not saying it is, but I do get the feeling that some people have the mentality that the Haiku code is proprietary or at least want to treat it as such.

Finally, contrary to some people's beliefs, Haikuware's (Karl and I) intentions are truely only to help the Haiku user community use the technology that we all so much enjoy.

Reply Parent Score: 1

koki Member since:
2005-10-17

I guess I really better start thinking of Haiku as Haiku Inc from now on, since in this atleast it really comes across as a true corporation rather than a open source project done for fun and passion.


The truth is that Haiku is about the volunteers; without the volunteers, there would be no Haiku, just like any other open source project.

Haiku Inc. is a non-profit that was created to support the Haiku project, but the development-related decisions, including but not limited to distributions, are made by the (volunteer) developers. The distro guidelines are simply a reflection of the decisions made by the very same volunteers that code Haiku and make it available as open source.

There is no contradiction here: you are just mixing up open source code and branding, two different aspects that coexist in the same project but that require different thinking.

Reply Parent Score: 2