Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 19th Apr 2008 23:39 UTC, submitted by TheNerd
BeOS & Derivatives Every now and then, the Haiku mailing lists explode with emails about something called the distribution guidelines. The Haiku guys set up a set of guidelines with regards to use of the Haiku trademarks and logos; the "Haiku" name may not be used in the distribution's name, official trademarks and logos must be excluded, but the Haiku icons and artwork may be used. In addition to these cosmetic and trademark issues, the guidelines explain what is needed in order to receive the official "Haiku compatible" logo.
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tonestone57
Member since:
2005-12-31

Ok people. Everyone take a big breath and calm down.

There is PRE-ALPHA, ALPHA, BETA, RELEASE CANDIDATE (RC) & FINAL. Normally Pre-Alpha & Alpha software is mainly intended for developers/programmers to use and work with and NOT for the general public ( end users ). This is how Haiku Inc. prefers it also. Late Beta builds onwards are for everyone.

Now, speaking for myself, IF the software is *clearly* labeled as Pre-Alpha ( in the About Box & DESKTOP BACKGROUND IMAGE ) then I see no issue with Karl's release and with end users trying it out ( because they'd know what they're using ). After all, it is open source software and he is allowed to make his own distro of HAIKU.

Also, the issue of trademark is important. Haiku Inc. intends to release Haiku OS themselves. Karl can't have a version with included applications called HAIKU and Haiku Inc. come out with HAIKU that basically has the OS - It'd confuse users why there are two different versions of HAIKU. Since Karl made changes to HAIKU ( by adding programs ), then he was essentially creating a distro of it ( different from the original ). Any change(s) constitutes a new distro because it is not the same to the original HAIKU.

In addition, NOT using the HAIKU name is proper because Haiku Inc. intends to release the "Official" HAIKU OS 1.0 when it is ready. And, who wants a bunch of distros showing up with HAIKU in their name??? ie: HAIKU MAX, SUPER HAIKU, HAIKU EXTREME, SUPER DUPER HAIKU, etc. Only HAIKU Inc. should use HAIKU name for their release - trademark also says that HAIKU name belongs to HAIKU Inc.

I'm actually glad to see Karl make his distro and I'm sure others enjoy using it. So long as it's clearly labeled as Pre-Alpha then I won't have any issues with his distro and believe it may be a good thing for getting HAIKU out there - maybe too early, but still. Some fear that Karl's Senryu may be thought by non-Haiku users to be based off the FINAL version of HAIKU and give a BAD impression. That's why making sure that PRE-ALPHA stands out is very important. Haiku Inc should also clearly label "PRE-ALPHA" in HAIKU in the Boot Splash Screen, About Box & Desktop Background Image.

Reply Parent Score: 1

Valhalla Member since:
2006-01-24

umccullough wrote;
-"Let's put this into perspective though - helping the users doesn't necessarily help the developers in all cases."

of course not, but helping the users doesn't necessary hamper the developers either. and in this case I can't se any negative aspects for the developers. bitching users will always exist, because most of the bitching users don't give a s**t about Haiku and just wants to throw some crap around. look at this thread, BSDFan used Haiku as a proxy in his war against Linux, and do you think primelight's comments are that of someone interested in Haiku at all? in short, bitching users have no correlation with the existance of a weekly image. unless of course you have some data indicating an increase in 'bitching users' after the existance of the weekly pack?

koki wrote:
-"There is nothing wrong with devs/hobbyists getting together and testing Haiku software. But you really don't need to create a distro for that. Of course, we can't tell people what to do, but if somebody wants to have their own little distro anyway, that's fine. But then, a different set of rules applies. This is not unique to Haiku either; many projects have rules that regulate the creation of distros, remixes, etc.."

but the thing is that there wasn't a 'distro', there was a weekly image using a nightly build and preinstalled some third party software that people downloading the nightly builds would have had to install manually otherwise. it clearly stated that it was alpha software and therefore unstable, it was targeted at the exact same people who otherwise download the nightly builds, only making it easier to use. it was you koki, who decided to brand this as a 'distro'. even talking 'distro' at this stage in Haiku's existance seems ridicoulus. and the only reason I can see for you doing so was to make it not worth the effort for Karl to continue offering this weekly pack. I can't see where there were ever any confusion to those who downloaded this pack, now however there might be, atleast until people realize why he had to change it to Senryu.

and should Haiku inc have chosen not to release public nightly builds then yeah, I would have understood the animosity towards this pack, as it would then be obvious that they did not want the public (which currently likely only consists of us Beos/Haiku hardcore fans anyways) to experience Haiku in it's current state. however the builds are being made available to the 'public' by Haiku inc, clearly linked from the start page so obviously Haiku inc wants people to try them out.

Karl's weekly pack only allows me to skip the steps of installing the software I want to try out, nothing more. how this can possibly harm Haiku's brand name is beyond me.

maybe this is some Haiku inc versus Karl thing that I'm unaware of, because I just don't get it. iirc there was no love from Haiku inc back when Karl started the Bounties either. and the Bounties have been great for Haiku. maybe it's about Haiku inc being in total control, but if that is the case then it's the wrong platform (open source) and definately the wrong licence (MIT).

again, I can't see whatever harm could be done due to the existance of a weely image containg a clearly labeled alpha build of Haiku with working software that people download the nightly images would have had to install manually anyways.

not confusing, not counterproductive, just Haiku fans making it easier for Haiku fans.

Reply Parent Score: 2

koki Member since:
2005-10-17

but the thing is that there wasn't a 'distro', there was a weekly image using a nightly build and preinstalled some third party software...


That is exactly the definition of distribution.

and should Haiku inc have chosen not to release public nightly builds then yeah, I would have understood the animosity towards this pack,


There is no animosity. There is a concern that is certainly not unfounded, as can be attested by the fact, for example, that at one point in time the superpacks illegally included proprietary software. Maybe you don't care about this sort of thing, but we do and take them very seriously.

maybe this is some Haiku inc versus Karl thing that I'm unaware of...


I have nothing against Karl, nor is there a Haiku Inc, crusade against him. Personally, I have (publicly) supported Karl back in the days when he was running haikubounties.org, including sending some nasty messages on the Haiku mailing lists in defense of Karl directed to our former project leader.

What's more, I even tried to bring Karl on board in order to develop a bounty system within Haiku (which is what the community wanted), and to that end we exchanged a few ideas via private emails. But one day he vanished and then suddenly sometime later he announced the bounties on Haikuware (that experience taught me that Karl is more interested in doing his own thing than in being a teamplayer).

maybe it's about Haiku inc being in total control...


Well, yes, we want to have a degree of control on how we portray our name and brand. This is not unique to Haiku; that's why most projects have trademark policies that regulate the use of their logo and name and dictate the creation of distros.

We actually also control our code. That it is open source does not mean that anyone can commit anything. All commits are under peer review, and if the developers see something that they consider can jeopardize the quality, integrity or legality of the code base, be sure that the commit will be reverted.

again, I can't see whatever harm could be done due to the existance of a weely image containg a clearly labeled alpha build of Haiku with working software that people download the nightly images would have had to install manually anyways.


Since you have difficulty understanding, I will have to blunt with you; I will try to stay polite though. ;)

First, Haiku does not have any oversight over what's included in the superpacks, as Karl does with the superpacks whatever he wants w/o prior consultation with any of us. We simply don't want to have to respond or be accountable for what somebody else does, particularly when we have no chance to influence the outcome or when any attempt to correct what we see as problems are received as animosity or bad blood against the individual.

Finally, some of the software included in the superpacks actually does not work; some is not even developed nor supported anymore; for some of it, the code is not even available. We don't want people to associate Haiku with such an ugly mashup.

Is that simple enough for you to understand now? ;)

Reply Parent Score: 1