Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 5th May 2008 17:12 UTC, submitted by Dale Smoker
OpenSolaris 2008.5, the new distribution based on the OpenSolaris operating system, has been released into the wild. This release follows the conventions set by many of the popular Linux distributions, such as being based on a single live CD with installer, but also adds a load of OpenSolaris-specific features such as ZFS, DTrace, Containers, and a new package management system, IPS. OpenSolaris 2008.5 is the fruit of Project Indiana.
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Member since:2005-07-07
If it would fail gracefully and not do anything that would be one thing, but it doesn't. It spits out characters.
That's because the character is not mapped by the shell. It is not failing, per se. Just behaving differently.
Also, I couldn't implement the fix if I wanted to. I don't admin boxes, the standard for root is default, and there are 500+ boxes where I work. I don't want to change the shell when I'm work on recovering a crashed box. I'm not sure what will break, and I don't want to introduce variables.
You can exec bash at the prompt or tcsh or whatever shell you want.
There are perfectly good reasons I haven't found a solution to the problem, and none of them are related to me not knowing to the .rc file or my Linux usage.
That's beside the point.
I've never claimed to be a Unix expert, anywhere. I'm just happy Solaris will have an updated root shell, and I won't have to deal with that silliness if I decide to run it as my main OS.
If you are root on a box or 500+ at my company and called basic stuff like stty, silliness. I would be very worried.
I've used Unix, and Linux, Fedora, is the first Unix or Unix-like OS with the features to enable me to stick with it for a long period of time. I have to be able to get done what I need to get done. Which is the nice thing about Linux, it's Unix-like without making too many comfort sacrifices.
That's fine and totally understandable. But just because something is not what you are used doesn't mean it is broken. That was my point.
I use Linux to learn the fundamentals of Unix and Unix-like OSes. I threw threw myself into the deep end, so I couldn't retreat to a familiar OS. (I still have many OSes around, OS X, FreeBSD, Vista, XP, but I use Linux as my primary) Granted all the learning isn't one for one, but I learn the concepts.
Ah I remember the good old days when I was in college and made the same statement (running linux as my main Os and having others around to play with). :-) That's not a bad way to go about learning keep at it and all the best.
I must admit I was a little harsh and the discussion spun out of control.
Member since:2006-09-01
If you are root on a box or 500+ at my company and called basic stuff like stty, silliness. I would be very worried.
I'm still learning!
I work as Datacenter Site Support. If I'm root in a box, I'm taking commands from an Unix Engineer over the phone. I don't get free reign at all.
Thanks for pointing stty out. Now I know.
(Also, I was saying backspace not being mapped is silliness, not stty is silliness. Stty looks to be very useful. I wasn't clear on that one.)
That's fine and totally understandable. But just because something is not what you are used doesn't mean it is broken.
I understand it's personal preference, and my knowledge was the thing that was broken. You educated about the solution, and the problem, my knowledge, has been fixed.
I must admit I was a little harsh and the discussion spun out of control.
I my statements can be brash sometimes, so no problem. It was an interesting thread.
Member since:2005-07-24
If it would fail gracefully and not do anything that would be one thing, but it doesn't. It spits out characters.
It's certainly a different day and age today. :-) I've seen so much:
\E[23~
\[7m
\E[!p\E[?3;4l\E[4l\E>
in my time. Fixed so many broken terminfo and termcap definitions. Diagnosed so many flow control glitches and mismatched terminal settings on AT&T 4410s and 605s and Wyse50s and Wyse60s. Done so much blind typing into terinals whose screen contents were completely unrecognizable, that when I see a few strange characters, it takes my brain a moment to recognize that there is actually something wrong.
There are only really two important terminal types that I work with today, and those are "linux" and "xterm". And those work so consistently well these days that I can fully understand the surprise that the non-graybeards must experience when a key isn't mapped right. It's a sign that some of the more stupid crap I used to have to deal with is now truly history. Or at least a rarity. Praise the Lord! (And I'm an atheist!)
The backspace thing was, indeed, an embarrassing issue for the year 2008. Especially since, if I understand correctly, it was not a matter of the erase character not being set, but of the shell not handling the defined erase character properly. But it *does* seem to be history. I'm not sure what the old config was, but when I bring up gnome-terminal in 2008.05 I get bash, and the backspace works just fine. I was expecting to be able to ctrl-alt-F1 to check out a text console, but that doesn't seem to be the right key sequence. Unix is Unix is Unix[1]... except for all those little things we take for granted about our usual flavor. :0
[1] That would be "POSIX-like OS is POSIX-like OS is POSIX-like OS" for you anal retentives regarding Linux not being Unix. But even you have to admit it loses something in the translation. ;-)
Edited 2008-05-06 22:29 UTC
Member since:2005-07-07
There are only really two important terminal types that I work with today, and those are "linux" and "xterm". And those work so consistently well these days that I can fully understand the surprise that the non-graybeards must experience when a key isn't mapped right.
This almost as silly as an American going to london and complaining that the steering wheel is on the "wrong side" and they drive on the "wrong side" of the road and vice versa.
The backspace thing was, indeed, an embarrassing issue for the year 2008. Especially since, if I understand correctly, it was not a matter of the erase character not being set, but of the shell not handling the defined erase character properly.
ergo not understanding the hex code for backspace to mean erase. There is no properly here. If that particular shell revision always behaved that way by design then it isn't a bug. The user expectation is, in effect PEBKAC.
But it *does* seem to be history. I'm not sure what the old config was, but when I bring up gnome-terminal in 2008.05 I get bash, and the backspace works just fine.
Like I said mountian out of a mole hill.
I was expecting to be able to ctrl-alt-F1 to check out a text console, but that doesn't seem to be the right key sequence. Unix is Unix is Unix[1]... except for all those little things we take for granted about our usual flavor. :0
Which other major Unix (AIX, HP-UX) has a key sequence that switches to a virtual console?
That would be "POSIX-like OS is POSIX-like OS is POSIX-like OS" for you anal retentives regarding Linux not being Unix. But even you have to admit it loses something in the translation. ;-)
POSIX doesn't define the things you are complaining about.:-)
Edited 2008-05-06 22:42 UTC
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Member since:
2006-09-01
If it would fail gracefully and not do anything that would be one thing, but it doesn't. It spits out characters.
Thanks for the info. I'll have to try that when I spin up a VM for Solaris. I do know that editing the .rc, or .cshrc, depending, file for the shell will load my preferences each time I login, but I haven't run into this problem outside of Solaris. Consequently, it's never been a priority for me to find a fix. Yes, I can read documentation and use a search engine.
Also, I couldn't implement the fix if I wanted to. I don't admin boxes, the standard for root is default, and there are 500+ boxes where I work. I don't want to change the shell when I'm work on recovering a crashed box. I'm not sure what will break, and I don't want to introduce variables.
There are perfectly good reasons I haven't found a solution to the problem, and none of them are related to me not knowing to the .rc file or my Linux usage.
I've never claimed to be a Unix expert, anywhere. I'm just happy Solaris will have an updated root shell, and I won't have to deal with that silliness if I decide to run it as my main OS.
I've used Unix, and Linux, Fedora, is the first Unix or Unix-like OS with the features to enable me to stick with it for a long period of time. I have to be able to get done what I need to get done. Which is the nice thing about Linux, it's Unix-like without making too many comfort sacrifices.
I use Linux to learn the fundamentals of Unix and Unix-like OSes. I threw threw myself into the deep end, so I couldn't retreat to a familiar OS. (I still have many OSes around, OS X, FreeBSD, Vista, XP, but I use Linux as my primary) Granted all the learning isn't one for one, but I learn the concepts.