Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 15th May 2008 13:38 UTC, submitted by gonzo
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RE[7]: Comment by satan666
by lemur2 on Fri 16th May 2008 02:06
in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by satan666"
"Virtually all Linux users, even OpenSuse users, are apparently still liable to be sued (in Microsoft's eyes) for running "Microsoft technology" ... even when Microsoft hasn't actually written any of the actual code involved.
Microsoft has, to the best of my knowledge, agreed to allow any user (no matter what distro) to use Moonlight+MSCodecs in any browser. However, they do not allow anyone to use their codecs outside of Moonlight hosted within a browser. That is the only restriction afaik. "
Microsoft is just pretending to be open with Silverlight. When Microsoft announced Silverlight, their claim to it being cross-platform was based on the fact that it could be used on windows or Mac. Their omission of Linux was pointed and quite deliberate.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Silverlight#Criticism
"The Mono team is currently developing a free and open-source implementation of the Silverlight runtime which they named Moonlight. The project is officially supported by Microsoft who, under an agreement with Novell, has made available the specifications, beyond what has been made publicly available, and test cases to the Mono team. The Mono team also has access to the Silverlight Base Class Library APIs which other developers do not have access to. Microsoft will also provide binary codecs for use in Moonlight. Moonlight targets both version 1.0 as well as 2.0 of Silverlight."
...
"Microsoft has also been criticized for not using the Scalable Vector Graphics standard for Silverlight, which, according to Ryan Paul of Ars Technica, is consistent with Microsoft's ignoring of open standards in other products, as well. However, according to David Betz, an independent .NET technologies specialist, Microsoft would have needed to alter the SVG specification to add .NET integration and UI constructs on top of SVG to make it suitable for scenarios Silverlight uses markup for (UI and vector markup, by default). Consequently, he thinks the "choice by Microsoft to use XAML over SVG, served to retain the SVG standard by not adding proprietary technology [to extend SVG]".
Typical. Hide bits of the spec. Hide bits of the API. Make some vital pieces available as binary blobs only.
Pointedly ignore any open standard. Use something invented by Microsoft instead, with the express intention of adding Microsoft-proprietary hooks into it.
Then pretend it is open, and try to get the whole world to use it, so that everything depends on Microsoft-proprietary technology, especially in areas that are currently supposed to be platform neutral.
... eg. binary codecs aren't going to be any use when trying to run Moonlight under Linux on a PS3 or a Sun Sparc or a Linksys router or NAS, for example, are they?
This way, all other platforms become lesser platforms, incapable of doing most things because they are not blessed by Microsoft (and they pay Microsoft no dues).
To hell with Microsoft. Avoid Silverlight and Moonlight and related technologies like XAML like the plague. Use the open equivalents instead, such as JavaFX, SVG ... even flash has recently become open enough to allow unencumbered implementation by any party.
The really disappointing thing about Moonlight and similar efforts (eg. Mono) is that it is well-intentioned FOSS authors who are walking straight into the mire of Microsoft's encumberances, apparently with very effective blinkers firmly in place.
Edited 2008-05-16 02:23 UTC
RE[8]: Comment by satan666
by sbergman27 on Fri 16th May 2008 02:25
in reply to "RE[7]: Comment by satan666"
The really disappointing thing about Moonlight and similar efforts (eg. Mono) is that it is...
Random comment, but I'm curious. Do you write code, implement OSS systems professionally, or do anything else to forward the open source cause in the real world? Or do you just post on internet forums? That's a sincere question.
Edited 2008-05-16 02:28 UTC
RE[8]: Comment by satan666
by basket on Fri 16th May 2008 16:35
in reply to "RE[7]: Comment by satan666"
... eg. binary codecs aren't going to be any use when trying to run Moonlight under Linux on a PS3 or a Sun Sparc or a Linksys router or NAS, for example, are they?
Actually, Microsoft has gone out of their way to ensure that we are able to deliver those codecs for as many Linux platforms as needed.
Provided we have the hardware to the platform and a working setup (ie, no "buy this machine on ebay, then hack it with this to boot" or variations of this) we will be happy to do the codec builds.






Member since:
2007-06-21
Microsoft has, to the best of my knowledge, agreed to allow any user (no matter what distro) to use Moonlight+MSCodecs in any browser.
However, they do not allow anyone to use their codecs outside of Moonlight hosted within a browser.
That is the only restriction afaik.
I assume you meant Moonlight here and not Mono.
Yes, Moonlight was implemented using ALSA, but we aren't refusing patches to make it work with something else. We'd even be willing to help abstract out the audio support.
There's already a guy working to port it to Windows for use in a video game, so at some point soon he'll probably get to the point of helping us work out how to best make the audio code pluggable and abstract it out a bit.
Well, obviously... Just like there's no way to use the Silverlight browser plugin to create content
However, we are also working on development tools for creating Silverlight content on Linux (or whatever else). This project is called LunarEclipse. We'll also be integrating this with MonoDevelop once we get a bit further along.
Not at all, you can create Silverlight content on any platform today. Granted, it's /easier/ to do so on Windows using their Expression Blend tool, but you can use a text editor to write XAML and JavaScript. You can also use InkScape to create XAML.