Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 16th Jun 2008 07:09 UTC
KDE Probably the most often misunderstood element of KDE4 is Plasma, the extensive widget engine that replaces the normal desktop and the Kicker panel from KDE 3.x. The entire KDE4 desktop is built up out of Plasmoids (yet another term for desk accessory), including the panel and the desktop itself - and it is the latter that has been causing quite some confusion. Where are my desktop icons? Update: Aaron Seigo has published a screencast showing how the FolderView Plasmoid behaves as a normal desktop, and how to make it so.
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great
by DirtyHarry on Mon 16th Jun 2008 07:56 UTC
DirtyHarry
Member since:
2006-01-31

Again this is a showcase of strength of the KDE 4 design. I just wanted that Aaron and friends wouldn't have to deal with so much criticism from users who are afraid it's different from KDE 3.

Just try it out yourself. And it's likely that just like me, you will be amazed by KDE 4. And if you're willing, you can imagine where it will go in the near future. KDE 4.1 looks very promising, and I can't imagine where KDE 4.2 will bring us...

Reply Score: 14

RE: great
by l3v1 on Mon 16th Jun 2008 09:35 in reply to "great"
l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

so much criticism from users


Criticism is good, even if comes from "fear". Most people are afraid of change, especially when there have been so many examples of changes for the worse, and so few of changes for the better. From my part, the only thing I don't want to see going missing is the broad configurability (which many people, especially Gnome users have historically been detesting so much), which I'm still ok with in the latest versions, and that only from a user's pov, since from the dev side it's pretty shiny.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: great
by sakeniwefu on Mon 16th Jun 2008 10:58 in reply to "RE: great"
sakeniwefu Member since:
2008-02-26

I was skeptic when KDE4 was launched and I had never had any good experience with KDE before, but the demo last week convinced me to try a KDE4 distribution in my new shiny mainframey laptop.
The main problem I will probably still have with KDE is that the best irreplaceable apps except Skype are GTK+ only.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: great
by tyrione on Tue 17th Jun 2008 05:18 in reply to "RE: great"
tyrione Member since:
2005-11-21

"so much criticism from users


Criticism is good, even if comes from "fear". Most people are afraid of change, especially when there have been so many examples of changes for the worse, and so few of changes for the better. From my part, the only thing I don't want to see going missing is the broad configurability (which many people, especially Gnome users have historically been detesting so much), which I'm still ok with in the latest versions, and that only from a user's pov, since from the dev side it's pretty shiny.
"

Give it a rest. We aren't solving World Peace. Criticism in the Real World is called Engineering Judgement after Brainstorming sessions.

If you don't like it, join the Peace Corps.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE: great
by dagw on Mon 16th Jun 2008 10:40 in reply to "great"
dagw Member since:
2005-07-06

I just wanted that Aaron and friends wouldn't have to deal with so much criticism from users who are afraid it's different from KDE 3.

If you want to avoid criticism from users then heading a large FOSS project is probably one of the worst tasks you can take on. I personally wish Aaron and friends had handled the criticism with a bit more grace and professionalism.

Just try it out yourself.

I did, and try updates regularly.

And it's likely that just like me, you will be amazed by KDE 4.

Well I wouldn't say amazed, but certainly impressed and cautiously optimistic that KDE4 could turn into something really cool and genuinely useful.

And if you're willing, you can imagine where it will go in the near future.

I'm trying. And the is where the user 'criticism' comes in. I, like many others, had concerns and questions about certain aspects of KDE4. I, like many others, also had suggestions on how improvements could be made. Upon voicing my suggestions and concerns, I like many others, got told to stop criticizing, simply trust that the KDE team knows best and stop bothering them with our silly concerns. That attitude, more than anything technical, is what's worrying me most about KDE4 at the moment.

Reply Parent Score: 11

RE[2]: great
by kragil on Mon 16th Jun 2008 11:11 in reply to "RE: great"
kragil Member since:
2006-01-04


If you want to avoid criticism from users then heading a large FOSS project is probably one of the worst tasks you can take on. I personally wish Aaron and friends had handled the criticism with a bit more grace and professionalism.


Problem is Aaron & friends are very nice people and they often respond to thick trolls or spoiled KDE3 users.
I think they should handle it more like Mark S. et al. and just ignore "I want KDE3 tweak/feature X exactly the way it was and I want it NOW!" posts and let happy KDE4 users deal with the poisonous people.
That would give them more time to deal with constructive criticism ..

Edited 2008-06-16 11:14 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[2]: great
by lemur2 on Mon 16th Jun 2008 11:41 in reply to "RE: great"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I'm trying. And the is where the user 'criticism' comes in. I, like many others, had concerns and questions about certain aspects of KDE4. I, like many others, also had suggestions on how improvements could be made. Upon voicing my suggestions and concerns, I like many others, got told to stop criticizing, simply trust that the KDE team knows best and stop bothering them with our silly concerns. That attitude, more than anything technical, is what's worrying me most about KDE4 at the moment.


I think it is probably likely that quite a lot of the "criticism" of KDE that is posted on public forums actually comes from Windows astroturfers.

KDE 4.1 went through a lengthy pre-design process of soliciting user input. When people show up ages after the consensus design has been established, often without a real point (eg. "you can't resize the panel" ... sorry, but you can ... or "its ugly" ... without any reason to say so) ... especially when a lot of these "critics" have never actually run the code ... perhaps you can see the reason for sensitivity on the part of developers.

Personally, I think Microsoft is very afraid that in KDE 4.1 the FOSS crowd have come up with an innovative, useful, functional, cross-platform and aesthetic new desktop that Windows cannot hope to match ... and hence you are seeing a lot of vitriolic and quite artificial criticism.

If anyone who did not have any comment or suggestion during the original design stages and who has an actual valid criticism to make now ... perhaps to the KDE developers this is indistinguishable from the astroturfing, and that is why it is getting short shrift.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: great
by _txf_ on Mon 16th Jun 2008 17:42 in reply to "RE: great"
_txf_ Member since:
2008-03-17

Whilst criticism is good, too much of it has been uninformed, whiny, or simply useless.

too many people said thing along the lines "this sucks" , "I don't like it", "kde devs are being stupid, screw this I'm going to gnome".

Very few of these people actually said something about the specific features they didn't like or even tried learn more after being corrected of their FUD.

Also it would be kind of nice if everyone didn't expect kde4.1 to be designed PERSONALLY for them.

Reply Parent Score: 4