Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 24th Jul 2008 22:04 UTC
Windows As someone who uses Windows Vista practically daily, I've always wondered where all the negativity in the media comes from. Sure, Vista isn't perfect (as if any operating system is), but I just don't see where all the complaints are coming from. It runs just fine on my old (6 years) machine, all my software and hardware is compatible, and it's stable as a rock. Microsoft has been wondering the same thing, and after a little test, they may have found out why people seem to dislike Vista so much.
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RE[6]: Indeed, a little lie
by melkor on Mon 28th Jul 2008 10:58 UTC in reply to "RE[5]: Indeed, a little lie"
Member since:

Hey - before you judge me, maybe you should actually find out why it took me so long?

Firstly - issues with the Marvell Yukon network card. I'm still not sure why I have networking in Debian, no idea why, since the Yukon is *not* working and it's the only network card in the machine.

Try a Nvidia 8400GS with a Samsung 24" widescreen LCD monitor. Not even Ubuntu did it right. And that took several hours of research on my part to try and figure out how to get it working, since the Linux kernel src was not installed, and I could not find a package amongst Debian's myriad amounts of packages. The only reason why I ended up getting it working I suspect is because I installed some package that I'd never heard of before in all my years of using Linux, that supposedly auto installs (or helps to) driver packages (sorry, the name eludes me). I tried to install the nvidia drivers but they borked. For fun, I used this application to install ndiswrapper (even though I didn't need it) and voila - I had a Linux kernel src tree. From there, the rest was dead easy, the proprietary Nvidia drivers installed in a jiffy. Oh, and even when trying to install X as a 800*600 256 colour setup on this system, it still would NOT f--king load. Dropped to a terminal every *single* goddamn time. Hell, even Windows 95 shits on Linux in this respect. Why does Linux have it so goddamn hard to do this? I can tell you now, your average user would say "screw this piece of shit, it's back to Windows for me, Linux sucks".

Oh, and then there's the problem with KDE/XFCE (this happened on Ubuntu). I went to install the xfce4 package. No dependency issues mentioned by apt. What does it do, post install? f--king screws KDE royally, uninstall a shitload of packges. Now, no warning was made by apt about this. None. Nada. Niente. Niet. Keine. Get the drift? Well, that took a bit of time to sort out. I knew better to try that on Debian. All in all, probably 4-5 hours wasted on Ubuntu before I got it up and running, and probably closer to 10 hours on Debian of troubleshooting, installing packages, fiddling with things etc.

You can happily sit on your Linux tree (that's a pun, given your user name ;) ), and say it's great, and if you like to fiddle, then it is. If you want a working system, quickly and easily, then for most people, Linux will NOT be your ticket to joy I'm afraid to say. True, not all of this is Linux' fault, but a lot is.

Sure, I got Linux working eventially, the key word is eventually.

Don't get me wrong, Vista is incurring my wrath (well, not Vista, but Canon actually) - my rather expensive Canon EOS1D Mark IIn is not detected by the system at all, and Canon's technical help is about as much fun as having my balls pulled off square mm by square mm. Other than that though, My Vista system works with everything else, without *any* issue. I've had a few issues, but nothing major, nothing that didn't happen under any other o/s:

1. Explorer crashing (once in 5 weeks of usage, not bad) - i've seen X crash more often than that!
2. A game I've started playing (Oblivion) has a weird issue when exiting the game, saying that it did not close properly, and the mouse is dead. A quick ^ meta del (sounds much cooller doesn't it?) fixes that and regains mouse usage. I suspect that this is actually down to either the latest update for it, or the unofficial Oblivion patch (I installed both at the same time, so not sure which caused the issue to start happening).
3. I had the sidebar disappear on me once, but it came back by itself, not sure what happened there.
4. Winamp - even though I told Winamp to be associated with the right click drop down menu (i.e. play in Winamp), it didn't work. A subsequent update 2 weeks later to a newer version seemed to fix the issue. Weird.
5. I can't access the Vista partition from my XP partition - permission denied. I haven't investigated the issue, but this is different to pre Vista systems, so maybe it's some new security setup.

UAC has not been an issue - it does not come up frequently as some would argue, and it's easy to read, and easy to use. Big deal.

Oh, and my Creative Xen M 60gb MP3 player works! I didn't think it would, but Creative's software installers are retarded. After re-reading the installers help me file, I found out what I'd done wrong (basically, plug in MP3 player first, let Windows Vista find it, then leave it plugged in and install the Creative software, weird!).


Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Indeed, a little lie
by lemur2 on Tue 29th Jul 2008 01:00 in reply to "RE[6]: Indeed, a little lie"
lemur2 Member since:

Hey - before you judge me, maybe you should actually find out why it took me so long?

Hey, before you judge Linux, you might try it on a machine with hardware which supports it.

You wouldn't try to install Vista on a PowerPC, would you? Nor on a 386 with 128MB RAM, either. No, you wou;d either buy it pre-installed, or you would look for a machine where someone had certified it for running Vista on.

Same with OSX ... you would install that on a Mac.

Do the same courtesy with Linux ... install it on a machine with hardware known to support Linux, and you will have no trouble whatsoever. It will be miles easier than OSX or Vista, or even XP for that matter.

If you want to experiment with Linux on escoteric hardware ... that is your call. Go for it if you are game and want to spend the effort.

... but don't bitch about it being difficult. Don't whine that it took you hours ... you should expect that if you go wandering off where no man has gone before. (Star Trek is after all a five-year mission!) The amazing thing is that it was even possible on random hardware. You can't say the same for OSX or Vista ... both of those require hardware certified for OSX or Vista respectively.

If you want an easy install (and not have to bitch) ... you are going about it entirely the wrong way. Get a Dell with Linux pre-installed if lack of install hassles is what you really want. Or get something from system76 or ZaReason ... or even Wallmart online if you prefer.

Reply Parent Score: 2

A little lie not!
by as901 on Tue 29th Jul 2008 10:16 in reply to "RE[7]: Indeed, a little lie"
as901 Member since:

First off, you are using an outdated version of Ubuntu. The 8.04 is called, "HardyHeron" is the latest, and it has two helper for finding Nvidia drivers.

I suggest you install 8.04 and than go to System, Administration, Synaptic Package Manager and type Nvidia in the search box. This will allow you to install a program that installs the correct Nvidia driver. I can understand your confusion. You are not used to such an easy answer. After Vista, many are confused and bewildered!

Mark Heinemann

Reply Parent Score: 1