Linked by Amjith Ramanujam on Thu 21st Aug 2008 23:44 UTC
Linux "Where is Linux the most popular, and where are the different Linux distributions the most popular?". Pingdom has taken a stab at answering this question using the Google Insights for Search. Read on for our observations on the results.
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RE[2]: Remember folks
by kaiwai on Sat 23rd Aug 2008 11:46 UTC in reply to "RE: Remember folks"
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

Remember folks, a computer is only a tool to get a job accomplished...

For some, their computer is a lifestyle statement.


For those in the third world - it isn't. It is a means to an end; a tool to make themselves either more efficient at work or a way of educating themselves (and thus improve their lot in life).


People haven't suddenly fallen in love with MacOS X - they've fallen in love with the product called Mac.

This discussion is supposed to concern the geography of Linux popularity, not Mac OSX.


Maybe you can learn what a damn example is before posting off snarky posts - or are you always this rude?

The operating system and hardware are viewed as one in the same - a symbiotic relationship.

Well, a lot of naive Apple fans have such a view. Such a notion is obviously inaccurate.


The end user makes no differentiation between the hardware and software, They see a big magical machine consuming electricity that does stuff for them. Join the real world one day and you'll see what the sheeple do.

How many end users actually purchase their computer based on the operating system it runs?

Probably most people. People know the difference between OSs.


Which then destroys the typical assumption that an end user has no choice in the operating system market; if they did know what an operating system is, and knew how to install it - then people wouldn't care about OEM installs of Linux, they would do it themselves.

the question I see end users ask isn't "does it run Windows" or "does it run MacOS X" - its always, "does it run [name of software]".

I have rarely heard anyone asking either of these very basic questions, because the answer is usually obvious if one has already used the desired software and/or OS.


If the hardware is running a new version of the operating system/hardware combination, they want to make sure that their software can work - refer back to the 'magical box' statement I made previously.

As for the third world; the third world will eventually drop the 'poor mans' operating system once they have more money.

Is that a reference to Linux as a cheaper, inferior OS? Linux is certainly cheaper than proprietary OSs such as OSX and Windows, but it is definitely not inferior to them.


No, I never said that. I said that banking your whole future on being the 'cheap mans operating system' whilst ignoring the high end of town is foolish at best.

A more apt reference would portray Linux as the "smart man's" OS.


Of course Mr Alpha Male, chest better - real men don't eat quiche

Just like a customer who starts buying name brand food as soon as they get a pay rise - the same can be said once the third world moves to first world, and want all the trappings of the first world lifestyle.

So, the computer is actually more than just "a tool to get a job accomplished?"


They'll move up market to what they deem as being the 'thing' which middle class have. A computer gets work done, but when you have more time, more money - your priorities change.

People using Linux are generally not prone to the myth that "switching" to OSX or Windows will improve their lifestyle (nor the perception of their lifestyle).


More alpha male chest beating I see.

Linux offers a lot that proprietary OSs don't, and most who try to switch will miss those Linux advantages. Even Microsoft knows this, hence, their original fear of the Linux OLPC with their subsequent takeover of the OLPC's OS.


And what advantages are these?

How is that any different to a person who lives in a cardboard box, has enough money to move out - are they really going to continue to live in a cardboard box when they can buy a better place?

Perhaps because they realize that OSX and Windows are not a "better place" than Linux. Inaccurate analogy.


So they should stay in a cardboard box in otherwords, "don't raise your expctations, just keep them really low so that I have my ego regular massaged by the number of Linux users".

This fixation on the 'low end market' is eventually going to dry up as that 'low end market' starts merging into the market where people want more than just the 'bare minimum, good enough' solution.

Then someone should tell Microsoft not to bother trying to indoctrinate the "low end markets."

Linux is a robust, world-class OS, and all OSs have plenty of problems. There is just no substance to the portrayal of Linux as a "bare minimum, good enough solution," compared to OSX or Windows.


I've always said they shouldn't waste their time on the low end of town, just as I've said that the 'race to the bottom' in the PC industry is hurting more than it is helping the over all IT industry.

Edited 2008-08-23 11:47 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Remember folks
by tupp on Sat 23rd Aug 2008 20:25 in reply to "RE[2]: Remember folks"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

Maybe you can learn what a damn example is before posting off snarky posts - or are you always this rude?

No intention to be rude. The OSX example just seems rather abrupt and appears to be a non sequitur.


The end user makes no differentiation between the hardware and software, They see a big magical machine consuming electricity that does stuff for them. Join the real world one day and you'll see what the sheeple do.

Sounds like a very cynical underestimation of the typical end user.


Of course Mr Alpha Male, chest beater - real men don't eat quiche

I wish that all women would see me that way.


Linux offers a lot that proprietary OSs don't, and most who try to switch will miss those Linux advantages.
And what advantages are these?

Off the top of my head:
- choice (in OS version, configuration, applications, type of UI, etc.);
- instant/speedy boot (with Splashtop, and/or open-source BIOSes, and/or optimized init systems);
- convenient package managers, with thousands of apps and no registration/waiting;
- no cost;
- no DRM;
- no "kill" switches nor artificial restrictions motivated by greed;
- no waiting in line for an inadequate product;
- quick bug fixes;
- no outdated hardware (light-weight versions);
- no regular payments for updates;
- LiveCDs/DVDs, with multisession capability;
- ability to modify the source code;
- cutting edge features, yielded from freedom to experiment;
- speedy installs (Sidux asks about 4 questions and takes 7 minutes;
- etc.


So they should stay in a cardboard box in otherwords, "don't raise your expctations, just keep them really low so that I have my ego regular massaged by the number of Linux users".

No. As I said, the cardboard box analogy is faulty. Linux already has superior, world-class software, and the potential of future Linux software is greater than that of OSX and Windows. Linux expectations are much higher than those of other OSs.


I've always said they shouldn't waste their time on the low end of town, just as I've said that the 'race to the bottom' in the PC industry is hurting more than it is helping the over all IT industry.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Remember folks
by zaine_ridling on Sun 24th Aug 2008 06:06 in reply to "RE[3]: Remember folks"
zaine_ridling Member since:
2007-05-13

No. As I said, the cardboard box analogy is faulty. Linux already has superior, world-class software, and the potential of future Linux software is greater than that of OSX and Windows. Linux expectations are much higher than those of other OSs.


Having switched from 22 years of Microsoft OSes, I can vouch for that. I thought I would use Wine more, but after about a month, I quickly found better Linux equivalents to my favorite old software. And like many folks today, I spend most of my day working with information and services through a browser. There's more extremely good cross-platform and webware/cloud apps -- OpenOffice and Gmail to name two -- than most Windows and OSX users may be aware of.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Remember folks
by google_ninja on Sun 24th Aug 2008 06:56 in reply to "RE[2]: Remember folks"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05


Of course Mr Alpha Male, chest better - real men don't eat quiche


I swear kaiwai, you are hands down my favorite mac zealot on the web ;)



I was listening to the stack overflow (joel spolsky and jeff atwood) podcast the other day, and joel brought up cognative dissonence (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance) as a reason for peoples knee jerk reaction about tech stuff.

I used to be a Linux zealot, and I remember thinking all that same crap about free software being inherently better. I recently switched my dev machine over to ubuntu, since I virtualized my dev environments and the OS the host is running is pretty irrelevant. To be polite, I'll just say that I find it hard to believe that I ever thought the things I thought about free software.

If someone is experiencing any sort of pain due to their computer platform, they have a choice. Either you can believe you have wasted a part of your life which you will never get back on something that is really not worth the effort, or you can believe that the befits you are getting are actually worth the pain. Since the latter doesn't require you to admit you made a pretty dumb mistake, most people go for that, since typically people don't like admitting to themselves they are stupid.

Next weekend I am switching back to vista, because the bizarre bugs, all around instability, and poor performance that I experienced when pushing ubuntu even a bit past normal usage are driving me bananas. But I know if I had been doing this a few years ago, I would have rationalized all of those problems away because open code is the fairy dust that makes things secure, and morally correct, and while I was experiencing these problems NOW, surely they will get fixed if I hang in just a little longer.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Remember folks
by tupp on Sun 24th Aug 2008 16:49 in reply to "RE[3]: Remember folks"
tupp Member since:
2006-11-12

If someone is experiencing any sort of pain due to their computer platform, they have a choice. Either you can believe you have wasted a part of your life which you will never get back on something that is really not worth the effort, or you can believe that the befits you are getting are actually worth the pain. Since the latter doesn't require you to admit you made a pretty dumb mistake, most people go for that, since typically people don't like admitting to themselves they are stupid.

Ah... so that's why there are so many rabid Mac and Windows zealots. Don't be too hard on the fanboys!


Next weekend I am switching back to vista, because the bizarre bugs, all around instability, and poor performance that I experienced when pushing ubuntu even a bit past normal usage are driving me bananas.

Never used Ubuntu, but I did use Mepis when they briefly employed the Ubuntu package repositories. I agree that there can be bugs in the Ubuntu packages. However, Linux/open-source is not Ubuntu -- it is much, much, MUCH more. Try a more solid distro/project.

Furthermore, Vista might have some bugs/instability. I think I have heard of one (maybe two) problems.

Reply Parent Score: 2