Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 18th Sep 2005 12:39 UTC, submitted by j-s-h
Internet & Networking A recent blog post on ZDNet contends that Firefox is not as secure as promised by counting exploits. Joseph Huang contends that severity and the number of unpatched vulnerabilites matters, not just the number of exploits discovered.
Thread beginning with comment 33000
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
my choice
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 18th Sep 2005 18:35 UTC
Member since:

Personally, I'm not a big fan of either IE or Firefox, nor of Opera. Please note that the following are my opinions, and should not be read as if facts.

Internet Explorer: I like it, whenever I use Windows at university, because of its speed. It loads pages fast, the program and new windows load fast. I find that a huge advantage over any other browser out there. The fact that this speed might result from the fact that IE is tied with the underlying OS is irrelevant. Speed is speed.

IEs downsides to me lay in the security area. Even though spyware, viruses and attacks have never posed a problem to me at all (the only virus I ever had in 15 years of computing was the Junkie boot virus-- removed ;) ), I do see less experienced people around me having problems with it.

Firefox: I use it daily on my main machine (Firefox 1.0.6 on Ubuntu Hoary), however I'm not fond of FF because it simply feels a lot slower than other browsers, both in program/window loading as in page loading. Please note the use of the word "feel". I have had this problem with browsers based on the gecko engine for a long time, but I in no way can exactly pinpoint the slowness. It's a very subjective matter, and a lot of people will rightfully so disagree with me.

I use Firefox on my Linux box because it simply is the best browser on Linux, period. On Windows, I'd use both IE and FF. However, I don't use Wndows.

Opera: I don't like Opera because I find it bloated. To me, an application is bloated when it has too many features and things I don't need. Opera is such a piece of software to me.


Then, which browser do I prefer? Safari, hands down. Safari 2.0 was a setback over the previous version that came with Panther. I don't see the use in RSS personally, so Safari 2.0's RSS feature is bloat to me. Secondly, Safari 2.0 has, like all of Tiger, problems with screen remnants; especially in text input fields (lines double printed) and scrollbars (the scrollblob being copied too many times). And above all: you cannot remove that damn Google search field in Safari 2.0. I *hate* that completely *useless* thing.

However, all in all, Safari is fast, provides the best CSS2 support (try rendering my blog,, in Safari and FF/IE; only in Safari does the header render properly (with shadow)), and all in all looks the best too.


Reply Score: 5

RE: my choice
by ma_d on Sun 18th Sep 2005 19:11 in reply to "my choice"
ma_d Member since:

I think the reason most people believe gecko browsers feel slow is because they wait longer to do page renders. If you use IE, you know that it does renders early and often: You see 8 copies of some pages as it's loading and changing. In old Mozilla you pretty much saw the last render.
Showing one render *is* more efficient. But I think they did this because gecko's parsing and rendering is so inefficient: Say your render takes .5 seconds. You only want to do it once. If it takes 0.05 seconds, you can do it 14 times.
I prefer fewer renders, because I just wanna see the final page. The only problem there is when takes 4 seconds to time out. This isn't usually much of a problem in firefox, because after a quarter of a second it starts rendering anyway.

Opera is fast. Just plain fast, IE can't dream about that kind of speed. Opera has also crashed on me ten times more than any other browser: And I used firefox when it was called phoenix.

Safari is nifty. Unfortunately, it's Macintosh only.

If you wanna see speed: Dillo baby! Seriously, that's the fastest browser I've ever seen. But hey, no CSS support, bad frames support, no ssl, but all in 400KB of C code!

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: my choice
by re_re on Sun 18th Sep 2005 19:38 in reply to "my choice"
re_re Member since:

Isn't konqueror a derivative of safari?

If I recall correctly, you (thome) are a gnome user but konqueror delivers much of the same functionality as safari.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: my choice
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 18th Sep 2005 19:45 in reply to "RE[2]: my choice"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:

If I recall correctly, you (thome) are a gnome user but konqueror delivers much of the same functionality as safari.

Konqueror on KDE isn't as efficient and well-built as Safari; khmtl on KDE is much buggier than Apple's Webcore. A long story about Apple being unfriendly to the KDE devs is attached to this, though.

And btw, it's Thom. Just, Thom.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: my choice
by on Sun 18th Sep 2005 20:03 in reply to "RE[2]: my choice"
Member since:

Eh, you got it wrong bubba.. to the extent safari and konqueror are related, safari is the derivative. Not the other way around.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE: my choice
by Varg Vikernes on Sun 18th Sep 2005 23:01 in reply to "my choice"
Varg Vikernes Member since:

That was well said. I'm also the one who deosn't give a shit about ganboyism and just use whatever works best for me. For a long time that was IE, then it was Firefox and I've tried to port onto Opera but the damn thing is just so damn bloated. Yes, you can disable most of that garbage, but there's something I don't understand; there's probably 100+ settings in opera yet you cannot set tab behavior the IE7/Firefox way (on close go to the previous tab in line, not visited). And I know it has been _much_ talked about on Opera forums, yet the developers seem to ignore it. The other thing about Opera is that I visited Wikipedia and the fonts were all funky weird. I immedietly uninstalled it and never tried again.

I understand you "slow" Firefox feel, because it feels the same way for me. I assume the problem is with Gecko rendering everything, even the menus, windows etc... IE, for me, has a much faster feel to it and I've only found Opera to top it. The other thing about Firefox that really annoys me is that it comes to a complete hault when I visit a Flash based web page or a site with embeded QuickTime. There's this 2 secons pause while loading the damn plugins. Then there's also the smooth scrolling that isn't all that smooth...

I am really looking forward IE7 so I can switch browsers again ;) Maybe I'll do it again when Firefox 2.0 is ralease, we'll see.

Btw, can anyone tell me what the hell the Mozilla guys have been doing for over a year since FF 1.0 was released? Right now I'm running FF 1.5 beta and honestly I can't see where they've spent all that time. Sure the menu has a different/bloated look and there's the fast back feature which could probably be done with an extension anyway... But what are the improvements? I, for one, can't see many. Oh, I see, they made all the extensions to not work...

Reply Parent Score: 1