Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 6th Oct 2008 10:37 UTC, submitted by John Mills
Mono Project The Mono project has released Mono 2.0. As most of you will know, Mono is an open-source implementation of Microsoft's .NET framework for Linux, Mac OS X, Windows, and other operating systems. The 2.0 release comes packed with new features, the main ones being the compiler upgrade to C# 3.0 with support for LINQ, as well as the inclusion of ADO.NET 2.0, ASP.NET 2.0 and System.Windows.Forms 2.0. The release notes detail all the changes and new features.
Thread beginning with comment 332605
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE: Amazing
by Kebabbert on Mon 6th Oct 2008 12:26 UTC in reply to "Amazing"
Kebabbert
Member since:
2007-07-27

Yes they are doing great work. Pity that MS isnt doing that work.

Imagine MS said "ntfs is open, you just have to reverse engineer it." Why are MS not releasing some of the code to Mono? To duplicate work is just plain stupid. Mono will never catch up with the latest MS .NET version.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Amazing
by liamdawe on Mon 6th Oct 2008 12:47 in reply to "RE: Amazing"
liamdawe Member since:
2006-07-04

Because MS want to keep what they made to themselves like they always do, seriously did i need to tell you that?

Reply Parent Score: 9

RE[2]: Amazing
by lemur2 on Mon 6th Oct 2008 13:12 in reply to "RE: Amazing"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Yes they are doing great work. Pity that MS isnt doing that work.

Imagine MS said "ntfs is open, you just have to reverse engineer it." Why are MS not releasing some of the code to Mono? To duplicate work is just plain stupid. Mono will never catch up with the latest MS .NET version.


MS have said that parts of .NET are open specifications. These parts are ISO standards even.

In typical MS fashion, though, only parts of the .NET framework are open:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework#Standardization_and_lic...

Specifically, CLI and the C# programming language are ECMA standards (ECMA 335 and ECMA 334) which later became ISO standards.

However:
However, this does not apply for the part of the .NET Framework which is not covered by the ECMA/ISO standard, which includes Windows Forms, ADO.NET, and ASP.NET. Patents that Microsoft holds in these areas may deter non-Microsoft implementations of the full framework.


Interestingly, Microsoft has made available much of the source code for the .NET Framework Base Class Library (including ASP.NET, ADO.NET and Windows Presentation Foundation) under the shared source Microsoft Reference License.

That is a red flag, right there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Reference_License#Microsoft_...

Microsoft Reference Source License (Ms-RSL)

This is the most restrictive of the Microsoft Shared Source licenses. The source code is made available to view for reference purposes only. Developers may not distribute or modify the code for commercial or non-commercial purposes.


Since Mono 2.0 includes Systems.Windows.Forms 2.0, ASP.NET 2.0 and ADO.NET 2.0 I'd say pretty much that anyone who installs Mono 2.0 on their Linux system has what Steve Ballmer refers to as an "undisclosed liability" to Microsoft right there.

http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleB...

http://www.oreillynet.com/windows/blog/2006/11/microsofts_ballmer_l...

http://www.boingboing.net/2006/11/17/ballmer-linux-users-.html

The easy thing by far to do then is to avoid Mono like the plague, and don't use SuSe Linux.

Personally, with most GNOME distributions now including Mono applications (Tomboy notes, Banshee, F-Spot, Beagle search et al) by default, I'd make it even simpler and just use a KDE distribution.

Edited 2008-10-06 13:18 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 9

RE[3]: Amazing
by Thom_Holwerda on Mon 6th Oct 2008 13:20 in reply to "RE[2]: Amazing"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

The easy thing by far to do then is to avoid Mono like the plague, and don't use SuSe Linux.

Personally, with most GNOME distributions now including Mono applications (Tomboy notes, Banshee, F-Spot, Beagle search et al) by default, I'd make it even simpler and just use a KDE distribution.


Yeah, because there's just SO much precedent out there of Microsoft suing individuals or other companies for patent infringement.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[3]: Amazing
by jstedfast on Mon 6th Oct 2008 13:21 in reply to "RE[2]: Amazing"
jstedfast Member since:
2007-06-21

You don't have to install Windows.Forms support, it's not a core part of Mono. Nor are ASP.NET or ADO.NET.

You are able to install just the ECMA/ISO standardized portions of Mono. Most (all?) Linux distributions already package it like this, anyway.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[3]: Amazing
by rramalho on Mon 6th Oct 2008 14:00 in reply to "RE[2]: Amazing"
rramalho Member since:
2007-07-11

FUD

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[3]: Amazing
by abraxas on Mon 6th Oct 2008 14:03 in reply to "RE[2]: Amazing"
abraxas Member since:
2005-07-07

You, like many other misguided users, haven't the slightest clue about Mono. The parts of Mono actually used by Linux applications like Banshee, Tomboy, F-Spot, and Beagle are based on standards not proprietary Microsoft technology. Mono does provide some parts of non-standard .NET but this is for compatibility. GNOME doesn't use Windows.Forms or any other garbage like that. They use GTK just like every other GNOME application. The entire Mono stack for GNOME is their own technology other than the language which is a standard. Why do we have to dispell these paranoid myths every time a Mono article appears?

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Amazing
by google_ninja on Wed 8th Oct 2008 06:10 in reply to "RE[2]: Amazing"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

You are downright trolling about this stuff lemur.

Interestingly, Microsoft has made available much of the source code for the .NET Framework Base Class Library (including ASP.NET, ADO.NET and Windows Presentation Foundation) under the shared source Microsoft Reference License.

...

Since Mono 2.0 includes Systems.Windows.Forms 2.0, ASP.NET 2.0 and ADO.NET 2.0 I'd say pretty much that anyone who installs Mono 2.0 on their Linux system has what Steve Ballmer refers to as an "undisclosed liability" to Microsoft right there.


You would have a great point, except that the mono team requires that all contributers have never read BCL or ROTOR source, and that they wrote all three implementations years before ms released their source.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Amazing
by WorknMan on Mon 6th Oct 2008 14:01 in reply to "RE: Amazing"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

Why are MS not releasing some of the code to Mono?


Because .NET is more than just about the framework. It's also about the OS, the web server, the database, etc.

But the more pragmatic answer is... because it doesn't make 'business sense' for them to do so.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Amazing
by jstedfast on Mon 6th Oct 2008 14:05 in reply to "RE: Amazing"
jstedfast Member since:
2007-06-21

Why are MS not releasing some of the code to Mono?


Actually, Microsoft are releasing some portions of .NET under a Free Software-approved license.

For example, just recently they released MEF under the MS-PL. They've also released parts (all?) of the DLR and the Silverlight 2.0 Controls will also be under MS-PL if I'm not mistaken.

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Amazing
by jessta on Mon 6th Oct 2008 17:53 in reply to "RE: Amazing"
jessta Member since:
2005-08-17

that's pretty much the point.
If you want the latest and greatest you have to use Windows.

Reply Parent Score: 2