Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 7th Oct 2008 10:27 UTC
Ubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu Sunday we reported on an interview with an MSI manager, who stated that internal research had shown that the return rate for the Linux version of MSI's Wind netbook was four times as high as that of the Windows XP version. He claimed that the unfamiliarity of people with Linux was the culprit. This claim sparked some serious discussion around the net, but now MSI's statement is being repeated by Canonical, the company behind Ubuntu.
Thread beginning with comment 332831
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
GJ apologists
by google_ninja on Tue 7th Oct 2008 17:43 UTC
google_ninja
Member since:
2006-02-05

Its nice to see the apologists out in full force. There are two ideas floating around, that if people just try linux they will like it, and that linux is perfectly fine for normal day to day tasks for the average joe.

Now we have a ton of above average techie people going out and buying these pre configured, pre installed machines that are meant as appliance machines for a small subset of tasks, and the linux machines are coming back in droves.

Personally, I am of the opinion that linux belongs on geeks machines and certain classes of servers and nowhere else, that windows belongs in the workplace, and that OSX belongs in the home. It is easy to illustrate the epic failure of each OS outside of those zones, and easy to talk about the strengths of each inside of them.

Reply Score: 5

RE: GJ apologists
by jimbofluffy on Tue 7th Oct 2008 18:52 in reply to "GJ apologists"
jimbofluffy Member since:
2008-07-15

Personally, I am of the opinion that linux belongs on geeks machines and certain classes of servers and nowhere else, that windows belongs in the workplace, and that OSX belongs in the home. It is easy to illustrate the epic failure of each OS outside of those zones, and easy to talk about the strengths of each inside of them.


I use OSX on my work laptop, Windows on my home game machine...

...alright, I admit, you got me, and Linux on my geek machines.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: GJ apologists
by irbis on Tue 7th Oct 2008 20:07 in reply to "GJ apologists"
irbis Member since:
2005-07-08

windows belongs in the workplace, and that OSX belongs in the home. It is easy to illustrate the epic failure of each OS outside of those zone

In multimedia and publishing industry Apple Mac OS X has always been very popular. Many other companies and work places could prefer Apple Macs too if only they were a bit cheaper. Besides, many PC gamers could disagree too if they were said that they'd better run Macs instead of Windows PCs.

As to Linux belonging on geeks' machines only, that may be quite true still, especially among home users. Maybe Unix and Linux will stay as suitable desktop operating systems only for relatively advanced users? (Not necessarily a bad thing, by the way.) But that doesn't rule out the possibility that they couldn't - gradually and slowly though - become more popular in work and office environments too, where competent IT support is available, and when there is no need for some software not (yet) available for Linux or Unix.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: GJ apologists
by google_ninja on Tue 7th Oct 2008 20:44 in reply to "RE: GJ apologists"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

In multimedia and publishing industry Apple Mac OS X has always been very popular. Many other companies and work places could prefer Apple Macs too if only they were a bit cheaper. Besides, many PC gamers could disagree too if they were said that they'd better run Macs instead of Windows PCs.


Publishers only release for windows because it is ubiquitous, and while directX is pretty good now, it has walked a long and thorny road to get to where it now is. If apple ended up dominating the home space, I'm sure it would not take long for publishers to start releases stuff for ogl.

As for multimedia and publishing, I would say that is more of an exception to my previous statement. Sort of like how alot of super high end CG work is done on SGI machines, but I don't think anyone would say that means UNIX is the OS of choice for creative professionals.

As to Linux belonging on geeks' machines only, that may be quite true still, especially among home users. Maybe Unix and Linux will stay as suitable desktop operating systems only for relatively advanced users? (Not necessarily a bad thing, by the way.) But that doesn't rule out the possibility that they couldn't - gradually and slowly though - become more popular in work and office environments too, where competent IT support is available, and when there is no need for some software not (yet) available for Linux or Unix.


Honestly, it takes a significant higher level of IT competence to deliver the same level of service when it comes to office networks. The MS stack is really unparalelled for about 90% of the kind of apps that businesses run on

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: GJ apologists
by hobgoblin on Wed 8th Oct 2008 02:06 in reply to "RE: GJ apologists"
hobgoblin Member since:
2005-07-06

In multimedia and publishing industry Apple Mac OS X has always been very popular.


quick guess, adobe photoshop first showed up on a mac running a earlier os version.

so the old hats at computer aided graphics work gets to know both the program and the os intimately.

then they teach the next gen how to operate this.

and things go as they often do...

first time i spotted a mac in real life was a older one hooked up to a scsi scanner in the photo department of a local newspaper. i suspect the scanner was able to scan negatives.

i suspect its much the same that keeps ms office in use. that, and that ms office have become more of a RAD then a office suite the last years or so, thanks to integrated visual basic.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: GJ apologists
by lemur2 on Tue 7th Oct 2008 23:42 in reply to "GJ apologists"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

and the linux machines are coming back in droves.


Where did you get that from?

The return rate for the linux machines is higher than for Windows ... because some purchasers are unfamiliar with Linux and just assumed that their purchase was a Windows machine.

I believe the original quote from MSI was that the return rate for Linux was four times higher than it was for Windows.

OK then ... Linux machines are being returned because the purchaser expected Windows. Understandable.

Why are the Windows machines being returned?

Maybe because XP Home doesn't connect to business networks?

What other reason could there be?

(Warning for MS apologists ... any answer that indicates that the return rate for Windows is insignificant will also reveal that the return rate for Linux is also insignificant ... because of the context of the original quote from MSI. It was stated as a ratio, not as an absolute number).

Edited 2008-10-07 23:45 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: GJ apologists
by lemur2 on Wed 8th Oct 2008 00:30 in reply to "RE: GJ apologists"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Why are the Windows machines being returned? Maybe because XP Home doesn't connect to business networks? What other reason could there be?


Maybe these particular netbook machines would get returned, also?

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2008/100708-asus-reports-virus-loa...

This report suffers from the common media misdirection in trying to conflate the virus problem with the machines, rather than with the OS that is installed on the machine ... but references to "D drive" and to "recycled.exe" rather give it away, don't they?

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: GJ apologists
by google_ninja on Wed 8th Oct 2008 00:33 in reply to "RE: GJ apologists"
google_ninja Member since:
2006-02-05

What does that have to do with anything? The origional quote was

We have done a lot of studies on the return rates and haven’t really talked about it much until now. Our internal research has shown that the return of netbooks is higher than regular notebooks, but the main cause of that is Linux. People would love to pay $299 or $399 but they don’t know what they get until they open the box. They start playing around with Linux and start realizing that it’s not what they are used to. They don’t want to spend time to learn it so they bring it back to the store. The return rate is at least four times higher for Linux netbooks than Windows XP netbooks.


I would take that to mean that if not for linux, people would return the winds for whatever reason people normally return notebooks.

The fact that people return xp loaded netbooks at the same rate as xp loaded notebooks doesn't address my point at all.

Reply Parent Score: 2