Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 12th Nov 2008 09:39 UTC, submitted by Reyk
OpenBSD O'Reilly interviewed 27 OpenBSD developers to present the new release. They discussed buffer cache improvements, the new malloc(), the work to make the math library more C99 compliant, what is new in the SCSI area, crypto support for softraid, a lot of fundamental work happened in PF, a new tool to merge configuration files during upgrades, the status of OpenCVS, some cool features of OpenSSH 5.1, the initial support for USB webcams, the never-ending work on improving and extending the sensors framework, and more.
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RE: Evolving Nicely
by unavowed on Wed 12th Nov 2008 11:57 UTC in reply to "Evolving Nicely"
unavowed
Member since:
2006-03-23

I'm quite surprised at how immature the system seems, judging from the interview: until now they didn't have >4GB RAM support, they were missing basic functions from the C standard library and had lots of other missing features and significant bugs.

I suppose this is because they don't have enough developers, yet they still waste time by doing things such as trying to reimplement CVS, just because they don't like the GNUGPL. Crazy, if you ask me.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Evolving Nicely
by dekernel on Wed 12th Nov 2008 13:00 in reply to "RE: Evolving Nicely"
dekernel Member since:
2005-07-07

I will assume that the use of the word "immature" means lacking features in your vernacular.

What you consider a waste of time is not considered a waste of time on their part. They (the core devs) are a group driven by philosophical wants. For them, the license issue is very important so that is where they spend the majority of the time.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Evolving Nicely
by diegocg on Wed 12th Nov 2008 14:45 in reply to "RE[2]: Evolving Nicely"
diegocg Member since:
2005-07-08

The problem is not so much that they're rewritting CVS with a BSD license. The problem is that these days pretty much everybody is running away from CVS to distributed systems like git or mercurial.

So basically OpenBSD is wasting the few time they have into rewritting a outdated source management system.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Evolving Nicely
by edogawaconan on Wed 12th Nov 2008 13:16 in reply to "RE: Evolving Nicely"
edogawaconan Member since:
2006-10-10

different people, different focus.
And I believe its license isn't the only problem (on CVS).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Evolving Nicely
by lteo on Wed 12th Nov 2008 13:46 in reply to "RE: Evolving Nicely"
lteo Member since:
2007-03-25

I suppose this is because they don't have enough developers, yet they still waste time by doing things such as trying to reimplement CVS, just because they don't like the GNUGPL. Crazy, if you ask me.


It's not "just because they don't like the GNUGPL."

From a OpenBSD misc@ mailing list post at http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=112589526510808&w=2 Theo responded to a post about OpenCVS as follows:

> I'm not sure if the people who have e-mailed me are actually involved in
> the OpenCVS effort or not, however the off-list reaction seems to be
> that the primary interest of the OpenCVS project is in re-licensing.

That is not the primary goal at all. Some people who really have nothing to do with us, and know zero about where we are going, are saying that. And they are wrong.

> In
> this case perhaps there wont be a lot of synergy between the projects.

That said, we have no interest in furthering GPL codebases. Not just because of the licenses, but also because of the obvious bloat that always happens with these codebases designed to "work on every stupid variation of system even written in the past".


And later on in http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=112589736230624&w=2

OK, let me be more clear. When people who know nothing about anything write software, in the GNU-style, they write bloated bloated bloated crap when it is not neccessary.

When it is done, OpenCVS will run fine on other systems.

Like OpenSSH.

Without the boatloats of bloat that is common in GNU-style projects.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[2]: Evolving Nicely
by dagw on Wed 12th Nov 2008 15:26 in reply to "RE: Evolving Nicely"
dagw Member since:
2005-07-06

'm quite surprised at how immature the system seems,

I guess immature means different things to you and me. I consider OpenBSD extremely mature and have done for years. Their hardware support has always been more than sufficient for my needs and everything they claim to support works perfectly out of the box. The entire system has been always been rock solid. I honestly don't think I've had a crash with OpenBSD. OpenBSD has always been a breeze to manage and their firewall and filtering software really is best I've ever used.

OpenBSD takes the approach that it's better to support few things well than lots of things badly. And admittedly because of this there have been projects where I've been unable to use OpenBSD. But they're very clear about what does and doesn't work, and I've never been in a situation where something I thought would work didn't. So while I might not have as many features as, for example, Linux, the features they do have are very mature.

yet they still waste time by doing things such as trying to reimplement CVS, just because they don't like the GNUGPL. Crazy, if you ask me.

They're not reimplementing CVS because they don't like the GNU GPL. They're reimplementing CVS because the don't like the GNU implementation of CVS. Two entirely different things.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[2]: Evolving Nicely
by omoerbeek on Thu 13th Nov 2008 08:53 in reply to "RE: Evolving Nicely"
omoerbeek Member since:
2006-10-28

Question of priorities. We choose to spend time on security features like stack smash protection, heap and library location randomization and much more.

We could as well say: oh dear, other systems are just busy catching up on these security features, they are really immature.

A strong point about OpenBSD is focus. We are not trying to please everybody, since we know that will fail anyway.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Evolving Nicely
by fithisux on Thu 13th Nov 2008 09:13 in reply to "RE[2]: Evolving Nicely"
fithisux Member since:
2006-01-22

Stack smashing protection is a must in a modern OS. I do not know any commercial OS having this feature.

Reply Parent Score: 2