Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 29th Nov 2008 21:22 UTC
Linux Even though there are a lot of happy people using Apple's iPhone very happily, there's also a group of people who are not so happy, most likely because of Apple's rather strict policies regarding applications and developers. While most of these people would just jailbreak the thing, some take it a step further - by installing another operating system. Yes, Linux now runs on the iPhone (1st gen/2nd gen, and the 1st gen iPod Touch).
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RE[2]: Wha?
by Ford Prefect on Sat 29th Nov 2008 23:59 UTC in reply to "RE: Wha?"
Ford Prefect
Member since:
2006-01-16

So, essentially, you are telling the folks who port Linux to the iPhone: Stop doing that! Fix my issues first!

But, ya know, those folks don't give a shit about your issues. Because they are not issues to them. The issue they currently resolve is to bring Linux to the iPhone. That's what they are interested in, that's what they are doing.

Why blame them? Because they just don't have any feelings about the driver API? Because that part just already works for them?

And guess what: It works for me, too. I don't need any proprietary driver to work with any awesome stable driver API. All I need is a stable userspace API and good quality open source drivers, both already provided.

If it doesn't work for you: Too bad. Fix it or leave it. There is nobody paid for painfully maintaining a stable driver API in Linux, so nobody does it. People can live with that, and surprisingly well so. It is wrong to claim that Linux has so many issues. Look at all these thousands of use-cases and systems it runs on already.

Reply Parent Score: 12

RE[3]: Wha?
by darknexus on Sun 30th Nov 2008 00:16 in reply to "RE[2]: Wha?"
darknexus Member since:
2008-07-15

Ah, the old "works for me, so screw you" response the Linux community is so fond of. You do realize that it is those like you who make Linux users look snobbish and rude, right?
I am not saying "fix my issues first." In fact, most of the open source drivers work for me, too, and I'm able to get around what does not. But the approach linux is taking is dead-ended and is leading to horrible fragmentation. Further, it is not developer friendly. note, I said developer-friendly, not hacker-friendly. Everything is hacker-friendly, regardless of what it is, it can be hacked, and bravo for them. But, if you want application developers and driver developers to pick up your platform, you need a consistent base. Until it can be guaranteed that an application developed for Linux will run on Linux, and not break with the next minor point release of glibc or the kernel, then you're on your way to having a platform, and not a mishmash of parts.
I realize that the current way is fine for open source. But guess how many people actually care about that? Look at Linux's market share and that should tell you. But having a stable base is fine for everybody, not just open source, and that, I would think, would be the best of all worlds.

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[4]: Wha?
by sbergman27 on Sun 30th Nov 2008 00:23 in reply to "RE[3]: Wha?"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Ah, the old "works for me, so screw you" response the Linux community is so fond of. You do realize that it is those like you who make Linux users look snobbish and rude, right? I am not saying "fix my issues first."

No. You are saying that everyone should want what you want. Read your own posts in this thread. Clearly, it is you who is being snobbish and rude in this instance.

Edited 2008-11-30 00:27 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[4]: Wha?
by ruel24 on Sun 30th Nov 2008 00:27 in reply to "RE[3]: Wha?"
ruel24 Member since:
2006-03-21

I disagree. I like choice. Besides, there really is only a few package managers: rpm, dpkg, source, and maybe a couple of others. Applications like Apt, Synaptic, Yum, YaST, URPMI, and others only manipulate the package managers and do some dependency resolution. The real package managers are rpm, dpkg...

But, back to the choice thing. I think homogenation is bad for Linux. I use PCLinuxOS, but if it goes a different direction than I want it to, I'll move somewhere else that gives me what I want. To homogenate distros so that they're standardized is just saying that I'll take what they give me and I'll like it. No, I won't. I like certain package management applications and I like having a nice configuration application like the Mandriva Control Center or YaST. If I had to use Ubuntu for the rest of my life, I'd buy a Mac. It's that simple. I'm all for FOSS, but I'm not a die hard and will use something else if that works better for me. Right now, Linux is everything that I need. But, this kind of crap could change that...

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: Wha?
by Ford Prefect on Sun 30th Nov 2008 00:40 in reply to "RE[3]: Wha?"
Ford Prefect Member since:
2006-01-16

I am not the Linux community. In fact I believe there is no single person in the world who may speak for "the Linux community".

You have to realize that what you are talking about is exactly not the thing most of the Linux developers are interested in. The are absolutely _not_ interested in the people who "don't care". The people who use it, the enthusiasts, these are people who _do_ care and these are the important ones as well - they bring the whole thing forward, not your Grandma.

This is not a company who needs mass revenues to survive. This is not a religion who needs to educate everybody else. This is _exactly_ a bunch of "works for me (or I will eventually fix it)" people, and that's nothing rude.

The open-source ecosystem is in very good health ever since. Old school market rules don't apply to it. This may not be how you like things to work, but it is just as it is and it doesn't have anything to do with the people involved or their attitude.
It just doesn't make so much sense for people to work on issues they are not interested in themselves without payment. That's why some things get done and others don't. The amazing thing now is how many things actually get done.

I also don't believe in this "best of both worlds" thing. I don't think you can get that, there are too many contrary paradigms. This will take a lot of time -- but the beauty about this thing is, that it will have all the time it takes. It won't suffer an early death, as companies and proprietary systems do.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[4]: Wha?
by segedunum on Mon 1st Dec 2008 23:13 in reply to "RE[3]: Wha?"
segedunum Member since:
2005-07-06

Ah, the old "works for me, so screw you" response the Linux community is so fond of.

If you want to put it like that, yes. The reason why open source software is used by so many now is that quite a few people can say "Works for me, so screw you", and developers such as these just churn away until more and more people are able to say that.

That's the only way it can work.

I am not saying "fix my issues first."

Yes, you are.

But the approach linux is taking is dead-ended and is leading to horrible fragmentation.

On the contrary. Open source code has brought things together. Old Unix could never work the way Linux systems do today.

Until it can be guaranteed that an application developed for Linux will run on Linux, and not break with the next minor point release of glibc or the kernel, then you're on your way to having a platform, and not a mishmash of parts.

We have a great deal of binary compatibility within Linux platforms today which many just don't seem to realise. Maybe no one cares when things work? You can grab many old Loki games as well as Motif applications from years ago and have them just run. The kernel already is binary compatible with applications. How do you think we went from 2.4 to 2.6? I can't think of very many occasions, if any, where a new version of glibc has caused any problems. As demand gets greater, compatibility will be extended to where it is needed.

But having a stable base is fine for everybody, not just open source, and that, I would think, would be the best of all worlds.

I agree with your sentiments, but that process takes time.

Edited 2008-12-01 23:14 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2