Linked by David Adams on Sun 7th Dec 2008 02:03 UTC, submitted by HugoS
General Development Version 6 of the popular Perl programming language will not be compatible with previous versions, but will open up a new world of custom "languages" and interpreters, according to its founder Larry Wall. Wall and his co-developers are doing with Perl 6 -- starting again. "It will break backward compatibility [but] in order to simplify it we have to get rid of old cruft, particularly the regular expression cruft," Wall said. "A lot of the unreadability of Perl is related to the regular expression syntax " and we didn't do that, we got it from Unix. It needs to be end-of-lifed."
Thread beginning with comment 339492
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
Perl 6 and Duke Nukem Forever...
by pantheraleo on Sun 7th Dec 2008 12:53 UTC
pantheraleo
Member since:
2007-03-07

Perl, and Parrot are probably second only to Duke Nukem Forever when it comes to claiming the title "King of Vaporware". It's been over 8 years since the design process of Perl 6 was started.

Parrot is probably a large part of the reason. None of the rest of the dynamic language world cares about Parrot anymore. They've already committed to building on top of Java or .NET (see IronPython, JRuby, and Caucho's Java version of PHP). So the only people still working on Parrot, are the people trying to design Perl 6.

Edited 2008-12-07 13:00 UTC

Reply Score: 2

petdance Member since:
2008-12-07

Except that Parrot has been having monthly releases for at least the last year, and Parrot 1.0 will be out in March 2009.

http://perlbuzz.com/2008/11/parrot-10-will-be-out-in-march-2009.htm...

And Perl 6 is marching along nicely.

There's plenty going on and it's phenomenal.

Reply Parent Score: 1

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

And Perl 6 is marching along nicely. There's plenty going on and it's phenomenal.

Yeah. I'm sure the latest nightlies are awesome.

Forgive my skepticism, but 8+ years of "Perl 6 is marching along nicely", with no end in sight, invites that. Something is very, very wrong with this project. I haven't paid close attention, but "poor project management" is usually a pretty good guess in these cases. Arguably, the most important skill a project manager can develop is the ability to say "No" at the right times.

Edited 2008-12-07 17:19 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

Well, I don't call 9 years to get to version 1.0 of Parrot, and even a beta release of Perl 6 still no where in sight to be "moving along quite nicely".

One has to question whether Perl 6 will have any relevance at all by the time it finally comes out. Perl is dead as a Web application language. It's still great for system admin scripting and such, but I suspect most sysadmins are going to stick to their good old trusty Perl 5 anyway.

Reply Parent Score: 1

whartung Member since:
2005-07-06

What's not clear is how relevant will this long-in-process progress be to people outside of the Perl community?

For someone flitting about the periphery, it sounds interesting, academically, but pragmatically, I just don't know if I should care.

Reply Parent Score: 2

Howie S Member since:
2005-07-14

The only thing Perl6 will ever be good for is a punchline to a joke.

You are right on the money! If you look up "vaporware" in the dictionary, it says "(see Perl6 and Parrot VM)".

This is yet another example of an overly-ambitious software project, lacking in clear direction or anything resembling an attainable roadmap - in other words, a deathmarch to nowhere-land.

All I can say is, "So long, you starry-eyed lemmings! Say 'hi' to the dodo bird for me."

Reply Parent Score: 0

tene Member since:
2008-07-24

This is yet another example of an overly-ambitious software project, lacking in clear direction or anything resembling an attainable roadmap - in other words, a deathmarch to nowhere-land.


An attainable roadmap? You mean the one here: https://trac.parrot.org/parrot/wiki/ParrotRoadmap ?

We've been meeting our release goals pretty regularly for the past two years. I'd say that's a pretty good indication of clear direction and attainable goals.

Reply Parent Score: 2

antwarrior Member since:
2006-02-11

.... None of the rest of the dynamic language world cares about Parrot anymore. They've already committed to building on top of Java or .NET (see IronPython, JRuby, and Caucho's Java version of PHP)......


I think you are mistaken here and that you have taken a tunnel view of the programming ecosystem or given the dynamic language greater significance than it is warranted. I don't think you can fairly say that the dynamic languagee community has "commited" to the current VMs than you can say that programming community had committed to java over .NET over C++ a few years back. Also the dynamic language community is young enough to be shaken up by a "new comer" just as perl shook up many of the standard production-quality languages in its day.

I am not necessarily looking forward to Perl 6 to speak candidly. It has been too long and I don't fully understand what it will bring to my toolset. If it does bring increased productivity, reduces my code volume and if it brings the improved clarity it promises then it will find a niche. If it does all this well in a prouction environment even better. This should perhaps be one of the benchmarks of its relevance instead of how well it fits in the particular programming ecosystem and its trends...

Reply Parent Score: 1

pantheraleo Member since:
2007-03-07

I don't think I am mistaken. The reason being that there is no obvious benefit to porting Python, Ruby, or PHP to Parrot. Not when there are already production quality versions written on top of the JVM and the .NET VM. And these implementations often run circles around their C counterparts because they can take advantage of JIT compilation and such.

I just can't see any obvious benefit to porting Python, Ruby, or PHP to Parrot. Other than "it might be fun to port it". But there's no real practical benefit.

Reply Parent Score: 1