Linked by Kroc Camen on Sat 20th Dec 2008 17:54 UTC
General Development IBM delves into what's new in PHP 5.3: Part-1 shows you the changes to the object-orientated capabilities, and Part-2 shows you the exciting new possibilities with real closures and lambda functions. ["Read more" for Kroc's personal commentary]
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Comment by Nycran
by Nycran on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 04:09 UTC
Nycran
Member since:
2006-02-06

"My web programming started in PHP, but I've since moved on to real languages."

You do realise that comments like that constitute serious trolling right?

PHP is a serious language and IMHO you're being a little self righteous. PHP can and is used to build real web apps every day - that's a fact. It's fast, flexible, robust, etc, and I for one prefer it over Python.

Please take a look at CI (http://codeigniter.com/) and at least give it a fair review before making statements like the one you just made.

Reply Score: 3

RE: Comment by Nycran
by ArcadeFX on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 14:06 in reply to "Comment by Nycran"
ArcadeFX Member since:
2005-07-06

We use PHP5 on 90% of our websites, Ruby 2% and the rest in C# or Python.

I really like PHP5 for the most part.

Side note: When people talk about "real languages" what are they referring to? Ruby is written in C as are most of the scripting languages (C or C++).

I like Code Igniter over Zend.

Edited 2008-12-22 14:11 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE: Comment by Nycran
by sbergman27 on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 15:44 in reply to "Comment by Nycran"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

PHP is a serious language and IMHO you're being...
...
...take a look at CI (http://codeigniter.com/) and at least give it a fair review before making statements...

Fine with me. Whatever you say. In the end, It's probably good that so many people are still clinging to PHP. It gives people who don't just stick to the first thing they learned a well deserved edge.

Building a house (framework) on top of a poor foundation doesn't change the poor foundation. PHP's supposed "object orientation" was bolted on in 5.0. Its namespace support was bolted on in *this* release. It's 2008, and namespaces are *new* in this release of PHP (if you can believe it). Until now, *everything* has lived in the (one and only) global namespace. How can anyone who has worked in anything else call that a real language? PHP, an acronym for Personal Home Page, was never designed for the kinds of applications that are common today. Languages that were designed with larger projects in mind, and have the required features built into their foundations, rather that attached with sheet metal screws, are simply better suited to today's web.

I'd be interested in the details of your web development experiences in other languages and frameworks. Java/Tapestry? Python/Django? Ruby/Rails? Perl/Catalyst? Others? Compare and contrast them with your PHP/Codeigniter experiences? You do have actual web development experience with languages and frameworks other than PHP ones, right?

Edited 2008-12-22 15:57 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by Nycran
by JeffS on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 17:31 in reply to "RE: Comment by Nycran"
JeffS Member since:
2005-07-12

You do realise that PHP is being used in some of the biggest websites in thw world (Yahoo, Facebook, and many many others) don't you?

And these organizations hire elite software engineers, who are usually given carte blanche to choose the language/framework/platform to build whatever offering they have, and make it work, and be competitive, and present a compelling product.

And quite often, the choice is PHP, for various reasons.

In fact, a few years back there was a long online article that presented the process Yahoo engineers went through in choosing a scripting language to replace their previous in-house proprietary scripting language (which was getting unwieldly to maintain), and why they chose PHP.

Of course, PHP has it's warts, lack of proper namespacing is one of them (until recently), just to name one. But guess what - it works, and enables people to create great websites.

Personally, if I were implementing a greenfield website, I would take a long look at the following:
Rails
Django
Grails
CakePHP
... and others.

I would honestly look at all the plusses and minuses of each, including the language itself.

But I would certainly not take an elitist stance and automatically dismiss one or the other due to trolling I read on message boards.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by Nycran
by Bill Shooter of Bul on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 17:33 in reply to "Comment by Nycran"
Bill Shooter of Bul Member since:
2006-07-14

Zend is where the smart money is going. Its more flexible. But maybe that's just me. I don't like most frameworks ( like ROR).

Reply Parent Score: 1