Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 22nd Dec 2008 22:26 UTC, submitted by rexstuff
Windows Windows Vista has been out and about for a while now, and it has already been updated with a service pack, with a second service pack on its way. Vista's successor, Windows 7, is also getting closer and closer to release, but despite all that, Windows XP is still going strong, and demand for the operating system remains high. Because of that, Microsoft has yet again extended Windows XP's lifetime for OEMs and resellers.
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RE[5]: Comment by Kroc
by lemur2 on Tue 23rd Dec 2008 09:26 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: Comment by Kroc"
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

"Windows 7 will hence very likely be almost as borked as Vista is. It will barely be better than a Vista service pack ... except that, unlike a service pack, you will have to pay for it.


And I assume you all base these conclusions on usage of Windows 7? Or, as usual, are you pulling all this out of your GNU ass?
"

Testy, testy Thom.

I base my conclusions on what Steve Sinofsky promises for Windows 7 ... or rather on what he doesn't promise for it.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-9951638-56.html

Sinofsky actually promises very little:
http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/techbeat/archives/2008/10/wh...
Windows 7 just isn’t all that exciting. It seems to be more about fixing the ills of Vista and improving the experience of using existing capabilities, than taking any giant leaps forward.


Unfortunately they talk about performance, but then utterly fail to mention what is really wrong with Vista, which is Vista's many anti-user features.

Nowhere, nowhere at all, is their ever any mention from Microsoft of really fixing what is wrong with Vista (from the point of view of the people who are expected to pay for Vista). Wake me up when Steven Sinofsky comes out and promises that Windows 7 will have no WGA, no DRM, no call-home spyware of any kind, and no other anti-user features. Wake me up when Sinofsky promises that Vista will come with Microsoft-written and tested Vista/Windows 7 compatible drivers for out-of-production (or legacy) peripheral hardware that people may own.

Then, finally, and only then, there might actually be substance in the vague promises of better performance and of "fixing Vista" via Windows 7. Then, and only then, would Windows 7 possibly become something worth paying for from the point of view of people who are actually expected to be paying for it.

PS: In all this, please don't misunderstand ... I do agree with Microsoft and with Sinofsky that Vista does have miserable performance (compared with any other OS on the same hardware), and that Windows 7 should be aimed at addressing that problem as well:

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=java_vm_performa...

Edited 2008-12-23 09:35 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[6]: Comment by Kroc
by Thom_Holwerda on Tue 23rd Dec 2008 11:40 in reply to "RE[5]: Comment by Kroc"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Wake me up when Steven Sinofsky comes out and promises that Windows 7 will have no WGA, no DRM, no call-home spyware of any kind, and no other anti-user features.


What is this "DRM" that you speak of? I've been using Windows products for a while now, including Windows Vista and Windows 7, and even though people like you keep blabbering on about it, I've never actually encountered any problems, limitations, or whatever from it.

Personally, I've never experienced this whole "DRM" thing you get so excited about in Windows.

I also don't know about any "phone home spyware". WGA is Microsoft's perogative, and I've never been bitten by it, and at OSNews we've already reported about how much improvement there has been, with false positives effectively eliminated. In other words, in case you're a pirate, well, then it's your own damn fault. WGA exists for a reason, and it's a damn nuisance, but only once, after installation.

Unless you're being a pirate, in which case it's your own damn fault.

In any case, we've established that you didn't actually try out Windows 7, which means that your opinion is void. Not that that needed any verification, but it's nice to know.

Edited 2008-12-23 11:42 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by Adurbe on Tue 23rd Dec 2008 12:20 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
Adurbe Member since:
2005-07-06

the drm is slightly annoying for systems without an active net connection as you have to call that damn phone system to get the key

Other than that, not TO much of a hassle

ANNOYING drm is like that on the game Spore. Unless you have a net connection it will not start (it needs to verify the key on launch?!!??) This means I cant play it on the train :-(

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by ssa2204 on Tue 23rd Dec 2008 20:50 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
ssa2204 Member since:
2006-04-22

What is this "DRM" that you speak of? I've been using Windows products for a while now, including Windows Vista and Windows 7, and even though people like you keep blabbering on about it, I've never actually encountered any problems, limitations, or whatever from it.

Personally, I've never experienced this whole "DRM" thing you get so excited about in Windows.


DRM is the 1 pound gorilla that some wish to inflate to 800 pounds, without having a clue to what it actually is. A sad irony is that 99% of those bitching about DRM are in fact certain types that do not use Windows anyways. Even sadder still is that most simply continue to even be clueless to this day about what it really is.

Since Vista's release, I have yet to see one credible article not written by some Linux fanboy actually discussing how badly DRM is affecting their "freedom". Funny, they also do not seem to write too many articles on how HD content can be played on certain platforms (so, when is the last time anyone played a Blue-Ray in Ubuntu without hassle?) Maybe if some would actually care to educate themselves about why DRM is in Windows, they could finally just move on with their lives.

I also don't know about any "phone home spyware". WGA is Microsoft's perogative, and I've never been bitten by it, and at OSNews we've already reported about how much improvement there has been, with false positives effectively eliminated. In other words, in case you're a pirate, well, then it's your own damn fault. WGA exists for a reason, and it's a damn nuisance, but only once, after installation.

Unless you're being a pirate, in which case it's your own damn fault.


Since XP's release I have had one single encounter with activation failure. It seems more that people just want to bitch about WGA because they can no longer pirate Windows as easily as other software. Of course these complaints again come from people that never use any Microsoft product to begin with, and have a philosophy that ALL software should simply be free. Still waiting on the explanation of the economics of how all the developers out there are going to make a living.

In any case, we've established that you didn't actually try out Windows 7, which means that your opinion is void. Not that that needed any verification, but it's nice to know.


Well put. Frankly it would be nice to be able to just filter out fanboys who simply want to troll. If they love Linux so god damn much, why not spend the energy and time improving on that beast instead of worrying about a product they will never use.

As I have said a million times before, I don't drive Fords, I do not like Fords, but I sure in the *#@& do not spend my time EVER worrying or even thinking about Fords. In fact I have not a clue to what cars they are even making these days. I like Saabs, so I spend my time visiting Saab related sites, not Ford sites bashing them because they are not Saab or Porsche.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: Comment by Kroc
by lemur2 on Wed 24th Dec 2008 00:02 in reply to "RE[6]: Comment by Kroc"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

What is this "DRM" that you speak of? I've been using Windows products for a while now, including Windows Vista and Windows 7, and even though people like you keep blabbering on about it, I've never actually encountered any problems, limitations, or whatever from it.

Personally, I've never experienced this whole "DRM" thing you get so excited about in Windows.


I've never been bitten by Windows DRM either ... because I don't use Windows Vista, because Windows Vista is such a performance dog (probably BECAUSE of the DRM).

However, people do come to me for advice from time to time, when something is not working as they would like on their systems. My nephew was telling me just two days ago about how he was unable to burn mp3 files onto blank CDs which he could then play in his car. Vista wouldn't let him do this (I didn't ask him where he got the mp3 files from).

I personally like to "rip" my own CDs (that I have legitimately purchased) and compress them down to mp3 files, and burn them on to a CD, so that I can play that CD in my car. The single CD can now contain multiple albums worth of music, which saves fumbling around in the car trying to replace CDs. Much safer. AFAIK, Vista won't let you do even this ... the compressed music files that Vista lets you make are, AFAIK, encrypted so that they will only play back on that same Vista system that compressed them in the first place.

I also don't know about any "phone home spyware". WGA is Microsoft's prerogative, and I've never been bitten by it, and at OSNews we've already reported about how much improvement there has been, with false positives effectively eliminated.


You don't replace many motherboards or hard disks or video cards on older systems then Thom, I take it? You don't have to repair older systems that people bring to you that have been riddled with malware beyond redemption, and the owners can't provide you with the CDs that came with their computer originally (even though there were some)?

Edited 2008-12-24 00:07 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2