Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 23rd Dec 2008 20:20 UTC, submitted by AdamW
Mandriva, Mandrake, Lycoris The first pre-release of Mandriva Linux 2009 Spring is now available. This alpha concentrates on updating to the major desktop components of the distribution, including KDE 4.2 Beta 2, GNOME 2.25.2, Xfce 4.6 Beta 2, X.org server 1.5, and kernel 2.6.28 rc8. It is also the first distribution to introduce the major new Tcl/Tk release, 8.6. The alpha is available only in the DVD Free edition with a traditional installer and no proprietary applications; future pre-releases will add the live CD One edition with proprietary drivers. Please help test this first pre-release and report bugs to Mandriva.
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RE[3]: KDE 3?
by lemur2 on Fri 26th Dec 2008 00:22 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: KDE 3?"
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

Also true. It's not that much work to simulate KDE 3 with KDE 4 technologies.


This is especially so with KDE 4.2. However, even with KDE 4.1.3, it is possible to emulate a KDE 3 desktop fairly well. It is a mistake to install both KDE 3 and KDE 4 at the same time, because of confusing duplicate menu entries that doing this causes. If a KDE 3 application does not have a KDE 4 port at this time, most distributions will re-compile the KDE 3 version against KDE 4 libraries and emulated-kde3-compatibility-libraries such as libao2 (which is an audio output library on KDE4 which supports ALSA, aRts, ESD, OSS, Pulse and several others). This means that if one installs KDE3 and KDE4 at the same time, one will have quite a few programs which have a KDE3 version, sometimes a KDE3-but-complied-for-KDE4 version, and sometimes a new version for KDE4 only of the same program on one's menus.

This is bound to cause confusion if it was not what one was expecting.

The only thing that I found to be essential for a quick transition form KDE3 to KDE4 was to remove the Kickoff menu from the panel and install the Lancelot menu instead.

http://lancelot.fomentgroup.org/main
This should be available for installation via the package manager if it is not included by default.

Also recommended, but not essential, is to change the default theme to something like Glassified or Aya.

There was until very recently a bug in the nvidia binary driver for Linux that caused dramatically horrible performance, and instability on many systems. If you have a nvidia graphics card, then in order for KDE 4 to be useable you must install the latest nvidia beta driver. The versions shown on this page:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/unix.html
are not recent enough, as these versions still contain the bug. As this thread shows:
http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=8885a0b51b794ca159...
you need a nvidia driver of version 180.06 or later in order to avoid this bug.

Please don't confuse any poor performance resulting from this bug with performance of KDE4. There is a great deal of dismissing of KDE 4 that has been done because of this nvidia bug.

Also recommended on older systems is to turn off the desktop effects.

After few tweaks like these the KDE 4 experience easily surpasses the KDE 3 experience.

KDE 4 is, after all, the ONLY desktop environment for Linux that makes use of the system's GPU to accelerate graphics rendering of the desktop. As a consequence, it out-performs any other Linux desktop, even the "lightweight" ones such as fluxbox and openbox, on any system that has even a modest (but working) GPU.

Edited 2008-12-26 00:30 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: KDE 3?
by sbergman27 on Fri 26th Dec 2008 00:32 in reply to "RE[3]: KDE 3?"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

KDE 4 is, after all, the ONLY desktop environment for Linux that makes use of the system's GPU to accelerate graphics rendering of the desktop. As a consequence, it out-performs any other Linux desktop, even the "lightweight" ones such as fluxbox and openbox, on any system that has even a modest (but working) GPU.

Nice spin, lemur. MS's and Apple's reps would be hard pressed to do better. But to rephrase in clearer terms, KDE4 is the ONLY desktop environment that requires you to beta test proprietary video drivers, or have certain specific video hardware that has very specific feature support in FOSS drivers to be usable.

I'm sure you'll have a host of links to throw back that have little to do with the topic at hand.

Edited 2008-12-26 00:33 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: KDE 3?
by lemur2 on Fri 26th Dec 2008 05:50 in reply to "RE[4]: KDE 3?"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"KDE 4 is, after all, the ONLY desktop environment for Linux that makes use of the system's GPU to accelerate graphics rendering of the desktop. As a consequence, it out-performs any other Linux desktop, even the "lightweight" ones such as fluxbox and openbox, on any system that has even a modest (but working) GPU.

Nice spin, lemur. MS's and Apple's reps would be hard pressed to do better. But to rephrase in clearer terms, KDE4 is the ONLY desktop environment that requires you to beta test proprietary video drivers, or have certain specific video hardware that has very specific feature support in FOSS drivers to be usable.

I'm sure you'll have a host of links to throw back that have little to do with the topic at hand.
"

Excuse me? What is this rant all about?

How on earth is it the fault of KDE development team that the current version nvidia proprietary driver for Linux has a long-standing (apparently over two years) performance bug that drastically affects the Xrender API, which in turn affects only a few Linux desktop applications such as: Firefox 3 (specifically scrolling), OpenOffice and especially KDE4?

http://forum.kde.org/openoffice-plasma-new-nvidia-beta-180-08-t-150...

You most certainly do not need exotic hardware to run KDE 4 and to get the best-perfoming Linux desktop out of it:

http://aseigo.blogspot.com/2008/09/on-kde4-performance.html

It is not acceptable if KDE 4 feels slower than KDE 3, and it is not acceptable if KDE 4 requires brand new hardware. At the same time, if the drivers for older hardware are simply not up to the task and those drivers aren't updated ... there's not much we can do about it and that hardware, which would otherwise be capable of better things, shouldn't be part of our target. It's also absolutely acceptable if certain features only work if the hardware can support them; this is mostly applicable to features reliant on more advanced graphics techniques.

I've seen the KDE 4 Plasma workspace as well as KDE 4 apps run smoothly on devices as small as the N810, on netbooks like the EEE PC, on older desktops and on new bling-bling laptops. The code base does scale well, but unfortunately it doesn't scale well everywhere ... yet. What gives?


Well, it turns out that what gives is that certain models of nvidia cards have abysmal Xrender performance using the current nvidia proprietary driver, or any version from the last two years.

Anything else works fine. Intel graphics, ATI, Via, any number of others, and even older nvidia cards ... all fine. And nvidia cards using the nvidia proprietary driver of version 180.06 or later ... also fine.

It requires only 2D accelerated graphics, which is not at all an "exotic feature". It should be working almost everywhere:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xrender

Xrender was written in 2000.

Apparently, if Xrender doesn't work properly, you can now opt to use OpenGL for the KDE4 desktop instead.

It Works For Me

If you think that I'm displaying a lot or maybe even too much confidence, here's why I have that confidence:

Right now, KDE 4 flies on my laptop, and it's hardly a screamer by today's standards. So I know it's possible for KDE 4 to perform very well.


If you have a nvidia card that suffers this bug in the driver, and you want to run KDE4, and you do not want to run a beta driver ... then run the nouveau driver, which works for 2D acceleration but not 3D.

So how many systems still running would there be that do not have a GPU, and hence be unsuitable targets for KDE4? well, there would of course be some, but it can't be any more than a few percent, if that. The GPU has been a part of PCs now for over 12 years, surely. I'm sure that I once had a 3D-accelerated PC game called Tomb Raider - running under MSDOS.

Edited 2008-12-26 06:10 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: KDE 3?
by lemur2 on Fri 26th Dec 2008 06:18 in reply to "RE[4]: KDE 3?"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"KDE 4 is, after all, the ONLY desktop environment for Linux that makes use of the system's GPU to accelerate graphics rendering of the desktop. As a consequence, it out-performs any other Linux desktop, even the "lightweight" ones such as fluxbox and openbox, on any system that has even a modest (but working) GPU.

Nice spin, lemur. MS's and Apple's reps would be hard pressed to do better. But to rephrase in clearer terms, KDE4 is the ONLY desktop environment that requires you to beta test proprietary video drivers, or have certain specific video hardware that has very specific feature support in FOSS drivers to be usable.

I'm sure you'll have a host of links to throw back that have little to do with the topic at hand.
"

Never being one to disappoint, here is just such a link, just to please you:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_raider

Any point to this link? Well, only that the required level of graphics hardware capability to run KDE 4 was available in popular PCs as long ago as 1996. A pretty good estimate was that 12 years figure, no?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_raider#Reception
Upon its release in 1996, Tomb Raider was widely praised by gaming magazines for its revolutionary graphics, inventive gameplay, and involving storyline. The level of sophistication Tomb Raider reached by combining state-of-the-art graphics, an atmospheric soundtrack, and a cinematic approach to gameplay was at the time unprecedented.


It was state-of-the-art in PC graphics ... a full 12 years ago.

Edited 2008-12-26 06:21 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2