Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 23rd Dec 2008 20:20 UTC, submitted by AdamW
Mandriva, Mandrake, Lycoris The first pre-release of Mandriva Linux 2009 Spring is now available. This alpha concentrates on updating to the major desktop components of the distribution, including KDE 4.2 Beta 2, GNOME 2.25.2, Xfce 4.6 Beta 2, X.org server 1.5, and kernel 2.6.28 rc8. It is also the first distribution to introduce the major new Tcl/Tk release, 8.6. The alpha is available only in the DVD Free edition with a traditional installer and no proprietary applications; future pre-releases will add the live CD One edition with proprietary drivers. Please help test this first pre-release and report bugs to Mandriva.
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RE[7]: KDE 3?
by lemur2 on Sat 27th Dec 2008 01:54 UTC in reply to "RE[6]: KDE 3?"
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

... Perhaps because the Linux graphics platform of choice is Nvidia hardware with Nvidia's drivers. From the OSNews story above: http://www.phoronix.com/vr.php?view=13284

I should say that performing like crap on the most popular Linux graphics platform in 2008, as you spend so many words admitting that KDE4 does, is a problem.


It is indeed a problem because many people, yourself included apparently, have apparently totally got the wrong end of the stick here.

It is not KDE4 that performs horribly, it is rather (and most unfortunately) "the Linux graphics platform of choice, Nvidia hardware with Nvidia's drivers" that performs horribly.

Benchmarks show that Nvidia hardware with Nvidia's (current) drivers as a graphics platform on Linux performs slower than software rendering.

http://www.phoronix.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11044

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=793&num=1

(3D performance is fine, it is only the 2D performance of Nvidia's current binary drivers that suffer this bug).

The problem does not only affect KDE4, it also affects some other modern desktop applications such as Firefox 3 and OpenOffice, because they too utilise the GPU (on systems where one is identified) to speed up rendering operations. Unfortunately, Nvidia hardware with Nvidia's (current) drivers actually slows it down.

From the first link I gave above:
There are ongoing complains about poor 2D performance of NVidia GPUs, about 2 years ago it started with people complaining about slow text rendering with subpixel-antialiasing, but the more programs use the XRender api, the more complaints are posted. KDE4 which uses XRender a lot and also relies on more advanced feature is really slow (I would call it almost unuseable), also FireFox3 is no joy with nvidia's binary drivers.


Fortunately this point is about to become moot. Nvidia will no doubt soon release their current beta drivers, and the performance bug will go away.

When it finally does so, the Linux graphics platform of choice will finally correctly support KDE4, Firefox 3 and OpenOffice, and other programs that utilise the Xrender functionality (as it should have done all along), and this will finally reveal to the majority of Linux users that KDE4 is actually easily the fastest desktop platform available for Linux.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[8]: KDE 3?
by sbergman27 on Sat 27th Dec 2008 02:11 in reply to "RE[7]: KDE 3?"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

It is indeed a problem because many people, yourself included apparently, have apparently totally got the wrong end of the stick here.

No. I have the right end of the stick. That's why you have to type, and type, and type so many paragraphs to "prove" me wrong. And I can just point to the obvious truth.

KDE4 jumped on the wrong boat with this particular design decision... despite any spin that you or Aseigo care to put on it after the fact. It was, perhaps, based upon a reasonable guess about the future of commonly available, hardware accelerated Xrender support at the time the decision was made. But it was based upon a *wrong* guess.

Edited 2008-12-27 02:30 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[9]: KDE 3?
by lemur2 on Sat 27th Dec 2008 04:07 in reply to "RE[8]: KDE 3?"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"It is indeed a problem because many people, yourself included apparently, have apparently totally got the wrong end of the stick here.

No. I have the right end of the stick. That's why you have to type, and type, and type so many paragraphs to "prove" me wrong. And I can just point to the obvious truth.

KDE4 jumped on the wrong boat with this particular design decision... despite any spin that you or Aseigo care to put on it after the fact. It was, perhaps, based upon a reasonable guess about the future of commonly available, hardware accelerated Xrender support at the time the decision was made. But it was based upon a *wrong* guess.
"

How was the KDE team supposed to know that Nvidia would introduce a severe performance bug into their binary driver (for Linux only) and then refuse to fix it (or even acknowledge it) for over two years?

You seem to think that this functionality wasn't available when the KDE4 team was making design decisions. You seem to assume that the KDE4 team bet the house on something that was supposed to appear in the future. That is an entirely incorrect assumption on your part. This bug appeared in the nvidia binary driver for Linux only AFTER KDE4 was designed, and was approaching a first release.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kde_4#KDE_4.0
On May 11, 2007, KDE 4.0 Alpha 1 was released marking the end of the addition of large features to the KDE base libraries and shifting the focus onto integrating the new technologies into applications and the basic desktop.


That dates the design decisions for KDE 4 at about the late 2005 timeframe. The Nvidia driver bug has been present, for 8000 and 9000 series cards only, for about two years ... since late 2006 timeframe. At first it wasn't that severe, and it seemed to affect only the rendering of anti-aliased fonts.

The bug doesn't affect nvidia cards earlier than the 8000 series, for example. They work fine with KDE4, and perform far better than the 8000 or 9000 series cards that are affected by the bug.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia#Market_history
Nvidia released the 8-series chip towards the end of 2006


So, the KDE4 design wasn't at all "based upon a reasonable guess about the future of commonly available, hardware accelerated Xrender support at the time the decision was made". Rather, it was based on what actually worked at the time. Xrender itself has been around since 2000, as I previously pointed out, and at the time KDE4 was designed it worked on all accelerated graphics hardware that was commonly available, representing almost all of the hardware still running.

I think you still have entirely the wrong player down as the one who gummed up the process here.

Edited 2008-12-27 04:25 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2