Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 28th Dec 2008 10:43 UTC
Graphics, User Interfaces High bit depth support, non-destructive editing (so called "effect layers") and colour management. Three hot topics in photography editing - that users have been waiting for for a long time now to appear in GIMP. Today Linux & Photography blog features an exclusive interview with Martin Nordholts, one of the core contributors to GIMP. Nordholts speaks about the current state of affairs, explains what is going on deep inside the GIMP (and GEGL) and also lifts a corner of the veil about what is to come.
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Gimp UI
by shevegen on Sun 28th Dec 2008 16:22 UTC
shevegen
Member since:
2008-04-04

First, let me state that I think that the GIMP has improved nicely. Second, let me also state that I think GIMP is a great solution altogether for image manipulation.

On the feature side I am quite fine with it and I think it is going on the right direction.

On the UI side though, I am not totally happy. My biggest gripe is that I am forced to use multiple windows. I want to have the option to use only one window, and arrange the widgets in a way _I_ would like to choose. That also includes removing menu options (!) when I do not need them.

Some people do not understand why one window is needed. I could elaborate why, but I tell you one thing - I dont WANT TO. I dont want to CONVINCE others that one window only like Photoshop is better.

I want to use it, because I _want_ to use it. I am not interested in people who try to convince me that I dont want it. I WANT IT. And I would love if developers could understand this wish.

This is not everything to it, for example I also would like a better keyboard integration. It would be better to select filters without using the mouse, in a way I could select and designate.

Last but not least, I want an alternative to Script-fu. I do not think Script-fu is the right way to go about it. Either I would like to use ruby, or I want a totally image-centric pseudo language. Both solutions would be fine for me. However, compared with the one-window thing, this is very low on my priority list, and as I wrote, I think the Gimp is improving continually. So things are GOOD, not bad!

Reply Score: 2

RE: Gimp UI
by shevegen on Sun 28th Dec 2008 16:24 in reply to "Gimp UI"
shevegen Member since:
2008-04-04

When I write widgets, I actually mean inlaid widgets which do not popup, and I also mean that I could composite the widgets with functionality how _I_ want it.

I know that this is currently not easily possible, however I hope that in the year 2008/2009 we slowly realize that different people want to have different things. I want to remain as flexible as possible. The core GIMP can remain as it is, but I would like to have options available to designate and set it up how i want to use it (on every important level)

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Gimp UI
by rajj on Sun 28th Dec 2008 20:10 in reply to "Gimp UI"
rajj Member since:
2005-07-06

Some people do not understand why one window is needed. I could elaborate why, but I tell you one thing - I dont WANT TO. I dont want to CONVINCE others that one window only like Photoshop is better.

I want to use it, because I _want_ to use it. I am not interested in people who try to convince me that I dont want it. I WANT IT. And I would love if developers could understand this wish.


If you want that, nest it inside of Xepher. That's the only sane (orthogonal) way of doing it. Window management belongs to the window manager. MDI is brain dead. End of story.

Tabs are almost tolerable; however, when you're running a tiling window manager (e.g. Ion), you still want the individual panes to be addressable by the window manager. Tabs break this because the application shouldn't be doing window management. That tab idea is good, but it should be implemented in the proper place.

That said, GIMP still isn't Ion friendly because of the toolboxes being independent windows shared between each document window. I think the right way to solve this problem is to have each document window have its own toolbars as sub-panel elements around the perimeter of the window.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[2]: Gimp UI
by manjabes on Sun 28th Dec 2008 21:42 in reply to "RE: Gimp UI"
manjabes Member since:
2005-08-27

Window management belongs to the window manager. MDI is brain dead. End of story.


Well I don't know about You but I'd still want to do something useful with a program, in this case the GIMP, not spend my time "managing windows" because of this kind of orthodox thinking.

Somehow the "Photoshop way" of doing things suits me more than the "GIMP way". I'm kind of used to the convenience of having all of the program disappear to the taskbar with one click rather than having to minimize (and later maximize) them one by one. The toolboxes are logically connected to the application anyway so why not visually arrange them so, too? Again, this might be because of the artificial limitations on my imagination but I cannot imagine a situation where I'd like to have, say, the GIMP window with the layer palette alongside an Explorer (or Konqueror for other human beings) window.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Gimp UI
by shevegen on Mon 29th Dec 2008 01:01 in reply to "RE: Gimp UI"
shevegen Member since:
2008-04-04

> nest it inside of Xepher.

No, I am not interested in Xepher.

> Window management belongs to the window manager.
> MDI is brain dead.
> End of story.

Your opinion is irrelevant. Why do you attempt to tutor me about this?

End of story.

The biggest problem is that your opinion is not the only radical one about it. I have seen it with many old time hardcore users. The whole Linux community is fractioned with people that have such strong opinions which attempt to prove other opinions as wrong.

Your arrogant "end of story" is a mark of this.

> Tabs are almost tolerable; however, when you're
> running a tiling window manager (e.g. Ion)

I respect Tuomov. He has many good points. But I
would see no point in using Ion or any tiling window manager BECAUSE I DO NOT WANT TO.

The only sane way is for a full environment, be it KDE or Gnome. (I prefer KDE, but I have no serious ill bearing for Gnome, although I think that they should simplify the compile & run process. I am typing this on a self compiled kde 3.5.10 right now, and I almost finished the latest kde 4 cmake based install, though two errors stopped me.)

> you still want the individual panes to be
> addressable by the window manager.

No, I do not want to. In fact, I WANT TO BE ABLE TO FULLY DESCRIBE HOW COMPONENTS SHOULD INTERACT WITH EACH OTHER. Sure, Kde and Gnome do not allow this level of fine tuning, but I am 100% sure about this.

> Tabs break this because the application shouldn't be
> doing window management.

See above. I want to fine tune how I, as user, want things to handle.

> That tab idea is good, but it should be
> implemented in the proper place.

You know what will happen? People will argue about it, and eventually only the developers get to decide what will be done. This was how things were running since years, this is how things will be running for years. We as users can not do much to change it. If we are developers, we have a higher chance to influence things.

But in principle I really think that it should be up to the people who want to use things, how they use it. Granted not even windows allows this, but then again I am not a fan of windows software in general (Mac is a bit better in this UI regard IMHO)

> I think the right way to solve this problem is to
> have each document window have its own toolbars as
> sub-panel elements around the perimeter of the
> window.

You see, in a way I agree with you, that I think as long as the Gimp developers constantly "play" and re-evaluate, then things will improve. One thing I loved was the rectangular "snapping" tool around selecting something. It was unexpected for me at the time, and I fell in love with it. I cant even use the old gimp anymore because I dont like it compared with the newer gimp versions, as a result.

These little improves do a lot and distract from the crappy UI (which annoys me too btw, because there was a time when menus were heavily rearranged, and I had to update my gimp tutorials to reflect those changes, that certain aspects could no longer be found under this or that menu subentry)

Reply Parent Score: 2

v RE: Gimp UI
by niemau on Mon 29th Dec 2008 05:56 in reply to "Gimp UI"