Linked by weildish on Sat 27th Dec 2008 22:58 UTC
Linux Sick of Apple and Microsoft flaunting themselves about constantly with their "I'm a Mac/I'm a PC" advertisements? Had a vision for the first Linux commercial you've been wanting to put into place? The Linux Foundation is calling you. Not literally, of course. Beginning January 26th, 2009, the Foundation will be accepting 60-second video offerings from budding directors worldwide to begin their own "I'm Linux" advertising campaign. The winner takes all with "a flight to Narita in Japan from the airport closest to your home plus three nights at a hotel in order for the winner to attend the Linux Foundation Japan's symposium in October next year." Start those rusty creative gears turning-- it's certain that plenty will enter, and only one will win.
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RE[3]: F*ck Linux
by WorknMan on Mon 29th Dec 2008 05:31 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: F*ck Linux"
WorknMan
Member since:
2005-11-13

x fans: Do we want to convert "Windows 'power users' like WorknMan? What exactly *are* 'power users', anyway? Am I a Linux 'power user'?


Please don't be offended by my use of 'power user'. I'm just using it in this context for lack of a better term. I am by no means a computer expert, but I know a hell of a lot more than your average computer-using soccer mom. I am proficient in many apps. The last time I did a clean install of XP on my system, I counted the number of apps I installed, and it was something like 46. And for many of these apps, if you look on their forums (for those that have them), there are always people clamoring for a Linux or Mac version (or people trying to get it up and running with Wine), which leads me to believe that the grass isn't really greener on the other side. Case in point:

http://www.newsleecher.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13822

So you can probably understand why I'm not exactly gung ho about the prospects of switching to another platform, especially when some of the more zealous among the anti-MS crowd try to make me think that just because I'm not using their OS of choice, I'm either going to hell or simply not capable of making an intelligent choice about the OS that I use.

Seems to me that pleasing regular folks might yield more benefits than going after 'power users' of another OS who would have so very much to unlearn.


Most of the 'regular folks' you're talking about are the ones that I (and others like me) provide support for. Some of these people don't even know they're using Windows. I just set it all up and tell them where the web browser and email icons are, and off they go. Some of them of more literate than that, but they still depend on me for a lot of things.

Of course, you can set up Linux for the average noob as I described above, but who's going to do that? Certainly not me. You guys would have to go door-to-door like a bunch of Jehovah's Witnesses ;) Because even if you manage to put together some ads that don't suck, the majority of 'regular folks' won't even see them, unless you put together enough money to get them aired nationally. Even assuming that happens and my friends and family are interested, they're still going to come and ask me whether they should try it.

So in a nutshell, I've got you by the balls ;) Of course, you are able to convince some like me to switch by using propaganda tactics (eg - Bill Gates is a seal-clubbing bastard), but that only gets you the low-hanging fruit. Without others like me, your only other option is probably to try to sneak in the back door and get Linux on the desktop in the corporate world, but that presents its own set of challenges and is beyond the scope of this thread.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: F*ck Linux
by sbergman27 on Mon 29th Dec 2008 05:40 in reply to "RE[3]: F*ck Linux"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

So in a nutshell, I've got you by the balls ;)
...
...but that only gets you the low-hanging fruit.
...
your only other option is probably to try to sneak in the back door...

Hey. Are you arguing with me or cruising me? ;-)

Edited 2008-12-29 05:41 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: F*ck Linux
by Gone fishing on Mon 29th Dec 2008 07:34 in reply to "RE[3]: F*ck Linux"
Gone fishing Member since:
2006-02-22

I would have voted Worknman's post up but I can’t as I've posted but most of his points are right on the mark. For a long time Linux was great for the computer illiterate and great for programming gurus but not for the folk in the middle - people like Worknman, me and the IT dep at the school - we would could probably all be described as Windows power users.

I think that is now changing - for me Ubuntu has stuck, I use it more than Windows and my kids and the next-door neighbours use Mint. Good graphical set-up tools are import to new Linux users (and have improved greatly) although as they get familiar, many will begin to use command line tools just because it quicker. The culture of the Linux community has changed, I rarely see “power of the command line” and “read the f****** manual” comments on help forums and so I can see more “Windows Power uses” giving Linux a try. An obvious advantage for such users (including myself) is the greatly reduced amount of free support I’m giving folk - you put on Linux and it “just works” you won’t have to go round every week to remove viruses and general malware.

I disagree with Worknman about installing Linux programs I don’t think its reasonable or necessary to ask all distro’s to use the same package management and as long as the repositories are up to date why is it needed? Using synaptic isn’t exactly difficult and has obvious advantages over windows when it comes to keeping the system fully patched. I can see that it would be nice if you could go to an applications website click a link and add the repository if its not present – maybe this will happen – I can also see that some graphical tools to build and install apps from source code might be nice, but generally I think this is an over rated problem.

There is still a problem with third party applications many Open source apps are great, but Open Office is not up to the standard of MS Office and many users simply need a Windows app, again this is less of a problem than it used to be Wine has improved crossover often works well – for some virtualisation looks a good option and I can see this becoming an even more viable option as react OS matures.

In conclusion – the Windows power user is important.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: F*ck Linux
by lemur2 on Mon 29th Dec 2008 09:21 in reply to "RE[4]: F*ck Linux"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Good graphical set-up tools are import to new Linux users (and have improved greatly) although as they get familiar, many will begin to use command line tools just because it quicker.


If you actually run Linux, perhaps I can give an example of how help, written out on users forums such as this one, is actually better to use the command line that the graphical set up tools, no matter how good the latter are.

If I have to explain to you how to do something, and that explanation involves the use of a graphical set up tool, then it will necessarily take me a lot of trouble, some very awkward explanations, and I would need to include screen-shots more often than not.

OTOH, I could ask you to open up the terminal program alongside your browser as you read this post. Then select the following line of text, and with that text still selected in the browser window, middle-click anywhere in the terminal window:

echo "Command-line-based instructions are easier."

In actual fact, when communicated via the medium of an on-line forum such as this one, instructions are easier to compose for using the command line, quicker and more accurate to convey, and far easier for the recipient of the instructions to perform.

Furthermore, even though it uses the command line, it is still in a sense "GUI" and it takes only two clicks of the mouse per step (each step being one line of command text), and requires no typing at all on the part of the new Linux user.

Edited 2008-12-29 09:29 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: F*ck Linux
by WorknMan on Mon 29th Dec 2008 16:58 in reply to "RE[4]: F*ck Linux"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

I disagree with Worknman about installing Linux programs I don’t think its reasonable or necessary to ask all distro’s to use the same package management and as long as the repositories are up to date why is it needed?


Well, if you look at it that way, why do we need a standard for HTML? Why can't we have every platform and/or distro using an incompatable standard, as long as each web browser is kept up to date? Don't tell me that it's not the same thing, because it is the same.

Note that I am not suggesting that all distros use the same package manager, but only the same packages.

And I don't mind using the command-line to install them either, as long as I have some of the same options on Windows (eg, whether or not to creat a desktop icon, etc), and as long as I can download a package that says 'Linux' on it and know tha it will work on whatever distro I'm using, so long as the distro supports that particular version of the package standard.

Using synaptic isn’t exactly difficult and has obvious advantages over windows when it comes to keeping the system fully patched.


Yeah, it usually has about 8 million packages, except for the one I happen to be looking for at the time. "Oh, but if it's not there, then you just have to change the IP of your repository source..." No, No, NO!!!!!

I can see that it would be nice if you could go to an applications website click a link and add the repository if its not present


Yeah, that's what non-Linux users are saying... that NEEDS to happen. So all you evangilists out there... drop the lame f**king ad campaign and get to work on this IMMEDIATELY.

There is still a problem with third party applications many Open source apps are great, but Open Office is not up to the standard of MS Office


And this also underscores the problem that you're never going to get some of these apps in your distro's repository either.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: F*ck Linux
by tweakedenigma on Mon 29th Dec 2008 16:11 in reply to "RE[3]: F*ck Linux"
tweakedenigma Member since:
2006-12-27

Personally I'm a little sick of this whole if I like this OS then I can't like the other BS everyone is always tossing around.

I'm a long time Linux user, and I run the local LUG. I love Linux and I think its a great OS with a lot of really good tools.

I'm an MCSE and I think Windows has some really great tools for somethings an not for others. I love active directory and think its one of the better LDAP implementations.

I have a couple of Macs in my house and I can honestly say they are the best at bringing their stuff together seamlessly. Granted its because they make everything themselves but just the way the Apple TV, Macs and ipods work so well together in my house it still astounds me.

In reality though out side of specific uses a normal user who checks their email, surfs the web, needs office products, just all around general computing all 3 platforms will do the job with ease.

We all know the places that each OS is better then the other, but lest cut the BS, more options is better its that simple.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: F*ck Linux
by j-kidd on Tue 30th Dec 2008 13:32 in reply to "RE[3]: F*ck Linux"
j-kidd Member since:
2005-07-06

Just because you really enjoy being a Windows power user cum family tech support guy, doesn't mean that there isn't any power user cum family tech support guy who happens to use Linux.

The purpose of the ads is, of course, to get those in the former group who are more capable of making an intelligent choice about the OS to join the later group ;)

Reply Parent Score: 1