Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 28th Dec 2008 10:43 UTC
Graphics, User Interfaces High bit depth support, non-destructive editing (so called "effect layers") and colour management. Three hot topics in photography editing - that users have been waiting for for a long time now to appear in GIMP. Today Linux & Photography blog features an exclusive interview with Martin Nordholts, one of the core contributors to GIMP. Nordholts speaks about the current state of affairs, explains what is going on deep inside the GIMP (and GEGL) and also lifts a corner of the veil about what is to come.
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RE[4]: When???
by msundman on Mon 29th Dec 2008 18:49 UTC in reply to "RE[3]: When???"
msundman
Member since:
2005-07-06

""What is GIMP.. A Image Manipulation Program .... from developers to developers? ..."

I think "from developers to non-bitching users" would be a more appropriate description. Non-bitching users are listened to while bitching users are ignored.
"

The problem is this:
The user asks for some feature. Some developer(s) arrogantly claims the user doesn't know what he/she wants and that he/she doesn't really want the feature asked for. The user gets annoyed by the arrogance and gives his/her reasons for wanting the feature in question. The developer(s) sees this as criticism and labels the user as a "bitching user to be ignored" (possibly after a round of "then do it yourself" - "I can't, I'm not a programmer" - "then pay a programmer to do it" - "I can't afford it (and besides, for that kind of money I could afford 10 photoshop licenses)" - "then learn how to program so that you can do it yourself and stop bitching about it").

Edited 2008-12-29 18:49 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[5]: When???
by cyclops on Tue 30th Dec 2008 17:32 in reply to "RE[4]: When???"
cyclops Member since:
2006-03-12

"[q]"What is GIMP.. A Image Manipulation Program .... from developers to developers? ..."

I think "from developers to non-bitching users" would be a more appropriate description. Non-bitching users are listened to while bitching users are ignored.
"

The problem is this:
The user asks for some feature. Some developer(s) arrogantly claims the user doesn't know what he/she wants and that he/she doesn't really want the feature asked for. The user gets annoyed by the arrogance and gives his/her reasons for wanting the feature in question. The developer(s) sees this as criticism and labels the user as a "bitching user to be ignored" (possibly after a round of "then do it yourself" - "I can't, I'm not a programmer" - "then pay a programmer to do it" - "I can't afford it (and besides, for that kind of money I could afford 10 photoshop licenses)" - "then learn how to program so that you can do it yourself and stop bitching about it"). [/q]

I read this and I was somewhat surprised. It has always worked that those who can supply code or actively work over the project have the control; "Scratch your own itch". Ignoring the fact that open-source in general allows access to users easier access to developers through your distribution vendor; mailing lists; irc; forums;email at an unrepresented level.

What I find somewhat bizarre is these developers are painted in a bad light by you. Without picking a case its comfortable to say that any user expecting a developer to bend to his will is being arrogant, without demonstrating any expertise.

The exception possibly to this would be GUI experts who would lend there expertise to an open source without actively contributing.

Thats not to say that the develops aren't arrogant. Develops regardless of what type of development are just people, as are the users. In fact most on Linux are both Users and Developers, and all mainly users.

The bottom line is though if you want something done in this world there are ways to ask, threatening the developer with an alternative proprietary choice as suggested is unlikely to cut any mustard.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: When???
by msundman on Tue 30th Dec 2008 19:08 in reply to "RE[5]: When???"
msundman Member since:
2005-07-06

What I find somewhat bizarre is these developers are painted in a bad light by you. Without picking a case its comfortable to say that any user expecting a developer to bend to his will is being arrogant, without demonstrating any expertise.

Exactly what about what I said did you find bizarre? I didn't say anything about bending any will or expecting something like that. What I said is arrogant was to default to the assumption that other people don't want what they say they want. (That is often the case, but one should never assume it without strong indications of it.)

And as for the "problem" which I tried to highlight (but which you perhaps didn't understand); it's that while the devs may ignore bitching users the devs are unjustly labeling users as "bitching users" even when there is (virtually) no cause for it.

threatening the developer with an alternative proprietary choice as suggested

Who has suggested to threaten devs with anything? Implying that getting one feature implemented into gimp isn't worth as much to one single user as the money for 10 photoshop-licences, even if the user could afford it but really can't, can hardly be regarded as "threatening".

The fact is that the "Then pay someone else to implement it!"-way just doesn't work with normal people, and although developers know it some still continue to use that card for some reason (perhaps to assert their dominance or to highlight their indifference or who knows?)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[5]: When???
by cyclops on Tue 30th Dec 2008 17:57 in reply to "RE[4]: When???"
cyclops Member since:
2006-03-12

Interestingly why not choose another alternative open source package, why does it have to be the expensive proprietary alternative...hell why not a cheap proprietary alternative.

Reply Parent Score: 2