Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 6th Jan 2009 13:48 UTC
Debian and its clones "The developers behind the Debian Linux distribution are preparing for the upcoming release of Debian 5, which is codenamed Lenny. The decision to move forward with the release follows a contentious vote over whether to permit the inclusion of binary blobs in the new version of the distribution. Consensus coalesced around a controversial proposal to "assume blobs comply with the GPL unless proven otherwise."
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RE: Comment by moleskine
by stabbyjones on Wed 7th Jan 2009 01:27 UTC in reply to "Comment by moleskine"
stabbyjones
Member since:
2008-04-15

I don't really think it reflects a fallen status, it's just quieter. There is just a lot less whinging from Debian users. That's left to Ubuntu/Et al.

As far as the dev's go i think it's important that they're discussing these things. It's not easy to run a totally pure system unless you make sacrifices but it should remain the primary goal of Debian without question.

The biggest complaint i've had with firmware personally was iwl5100 firmware isn't in the 2.6.26 kernel lenny will be released with. To fix this i had to add sidux repos to update the kernel for a new laptop.

As far as server builds go Lenny's current RC has been a rock. Since the last installer update i haven't had an issue with new installs.

At the moment it's looking like Lenny will release close to two years after the original Etch release (April 2007 i think it was) Those who stuck with Etch have had kernel updates and some major revisions since then. I tend to find the 6 month update cycle of other distro's to border on attention whoring.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by moleskine
by sbergman27 on Wed 7th Jan 2009 01:35 in reply to "RE: Comment by moleskine"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

As far as the dev's go i think it's important that they're discussing these things.

Discussion is beneficial when it results in progress. But this drama was a rerun of the one that accompanied (and delayed) the last release, and the one before that. What good does it do to discuss these things over and over if the discussion doesn't result in their being any closer to a resolution? But I guess the way is now paved for the release. Until next time...

Edited 2009-01-07 01:36 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by moleskine
by da_Chicken on Wed 7th Jan 2009 18:25 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by moleskine"
da_Chicken Member since:
2006-01-01

Discussion is beneficial when it results in progress.

I couldn't agree more. Debian developers like to gain perspective on problems by discussing them, and these discussions are beneficial exactly because they have resulted in such a great progress.

Debian has already removed from their main package archive the sourceless firmware blobs that were in Etch. That's progress.

Debian has continued to study which firmware blobs are non-free and how those can be removed from the kernel.[1][2] That's progress.

Debian has packaged some sourceless firmware and made it available to users from the non-free package archive in order to support common hardware. That's progress.

Debian-installer for Lenny has now an option to load non-free firmware from external media, if that is needed to support hardware. That's progress.

It's unfortunate that Debian couldn't solve all of these issues before Debian 5.0 had entered the pre-release freeze but I think they're still making very good progress.

[1] http://wiki.debian.org/KernelFirmwareLicensing
[2] http://womble.decadent.org.uk/blog/for-those-who-care-about-firmwar...

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by moleskine
by moleskine on Wed 7th Jan 2009 12:20 in reply to "RE: Comment by moleskine"
moleskine Member since:
2005-11-05

I don't really think it reflects a fallen status, it's just quieter. There is just a lot less whinging from Debian users. That's left to Ubuntu/Et al.

As far as the dev's go i think it's important that they're discussing these things. It's not easy to run a totally pure system unless you make sacrifices but it should remain the primary goal of Debian without question.

The biggest complaint i've had with firmware personally was iwl5100 firmware isn't in the 2.6.26 kernel lenny will be released with. To fix this i had to add sidux repos to update the kernel for a new laptop.

As far as server builds go Lenny's current RC has been a rock. Since the last installer update i haven't had an issue with new installs.

At the moment it's looking like Lenny will release close to two years after the original Etch release (April 2007 i think it was) Those who stuck with Etch have had kernel updates and some major revisions since then. I tend to find the 6 month update cycle of other distro's to border on attention whoring.


Yes that's a good one, about less whingeing. FWIW, I've just moved to SuSE after several years on Debian. The reason is that getting Lenny out the door seems to have caused a bit of a logjam in Unstable and Testing over the past few months, with the result that their software is getting a bit old and clunky for me. When Lenny is out and the river is flowing again, I'll probably move back. The one thing I notice, on trying another distro, is how far Debian has "defence in depth". It isn't just the number of available packages, it's that so many things have helper-scripts and useful little ideas attached to them. If you're prepared to spend some time learning the Debian Way, this really does make life creamy-smooth.

That's an interesting point about release cycles. I tried SuSE 11.0 about six months ago and it was too buggy and unpolished for me. Six months later, and 11.1 has really benefited from the extra attention. It's the best SuSE I've used for several years, Maybe releasing once a year rather than once every six months should become the norm for all distros. I suspect that even the blowhards must have had enough of "It's new! It's shiny! And, er, it doesn't work very well."

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by moleskine
by stabbyjones on Thu 8th Jan 2009 23:38 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by moleskine"
stabbyjones Member since:
2008-04-15

I had the same experience with suse 11.0 it's good to hear it's gotten better, i may have to check it out again next time i'm bored. I tried it last time to see what kde4 was like what version is 11.1 using now?

I have moved a few systems to sidux to get away from that log jam, the most difficult part about debian releases is when it goes into freeze.

To fix this you add the sidux repo's to your sources list and enable them when you're looking for newer packages you'll save yourself a reinstall later.

If you followed ubuntu 8.04 packages and lenny/sid packages at the start of the year, you'd find that there is never much difference between versions. it's when lenny went into freeze and 8.10 was coming that differences started to occur.

'release' every 6 months or not you'll find that most distro's are using the same thing unless they're in release/bugfix mode. which is why i find the 6 month cycle annoying. it's more of a marketing idea that gives the distro some air time.

Reply Parent Score: 1