Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 26th Jan 2009 11:56 UTC
Internet & Networking Earlier this month, news got out that the European Commission is charging Microsoft with unlawful competition regarding its bundling of the Internet Explorer web bowser with Windows. At the time, information was scarce, but thanks to Microsoft's quarterly filing at the Securities and Exchange Commission. we now have a little more insight into what the EU might force Microsoft to do.
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Comment by bile
by bile on Mon 26th Jan 2009 13:19 UTC
bile
Member since:
2005-07-08

I think the most reasonable thing is to leave MS the hell alone. What the EU is attempting to do is anticompetitive. What MS is doing is the very definition of competitive. If you don't like what they do don't purchase the product. No one forces you to use Windows or IE... yet you want to force MS to offer competitors products? And how would you feel if MS got the government to for you to use one of their products? Or should the local paint dealer be forced to carry all brands of paint? Should Apple be forced to provide alternative browsers? Mail clients? OS's? Where does it stop? There is no fundamental consistency here. Just property rights infringement and MS's competitors using the guns of government in an attempt to punish them.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by bile
by Eerde on Mon 26th Jan 2009 14:33 in reply to "Comment by bile"
Eerde Member since:
2008-06-23

If you don't like what they do don't purchase the product.

The problem is that 97.8% of PC's sold come with Microsoft pre installed, that is the scam !
If you could send Microsoft the activation code and got your money back that would help. Ever better would be to choose an OS at the checkout;

XP sp3 $ 125
Vi$ta home $ 225
Vi$ta Business $ 350
Office 2007 $ 625
Antivirus $ 125
These are the actual prices here in Europe !
or

(K)Ubuntu $ 5
openSuSE $ 5
Mandriva $ 5
Red Hat $ 5
openOffice $ 0
Anti virus $ 0

Now that gives the consumer choice and is fair competition !

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Comment by bile
by Coxy on Mon 26th Jan 2009 15:04 in reply to "RE: Comment by bile"
Coxy Member since:
2006-07-01

Fine by me, as long as you add below

'(K)Ubuntu $ 5
openSuSE $ 5
Mandriva $ 5
Red Hat $ 5
openOffice $ 0
Anti virus $ 0 '

* You will not be able to play games you previously used to - try planeshift instead of WoW, it's better because it's opensource, you can contribute code to the project. And your documents when opened with OOo won't look or be 100% compat. with MS Office. Also your chat programme won't support all the features your current one does, but who needs to be able send stupid sound samples and huge smilies like Yahoo messenger does? The devs didn't code anything like that because you actually need friends for that... which they don't have being geeks and all.

Edited 2009-01-26 15:08 UTC

Reply Parent Score: -1

RE[2]: Comment by bile
by smashIt on Mon 26th Jan 2009 19:55 in reply to "RE: Comment by bile"
smashIt Member since:
2005-07-06

XP sp3 $ 125
Vi$ta home $ 225
Vi$ta Business $ 350
Office 2007 $ 625
Antivirus $ 125
These are the actual prices here in Europe !


no they aren't, they are retailprices that are not compareable with oem-prices
xp comes in at around 30$ for oems
office 2007 starts at 67€ as retail
and there is a lot of free software for windows (including antivirus and office)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by bile
by WorknMan on Mon 26th Jan 2009 20:27 in reply to "RE: Comment by bile"
WorknMan Member since:
2005-11-13

The problem is that 97.8% of PC's sold come with Microsoft pre installed, that is the scam !
If you could send Microsoft the activation code and got your money back that would help. Ever better would be to choose an OS at the checkout;


Ok then, how many Macs are sold without OSX? When I buy a Mac, can I send in an activation code to get my money back if I wish not to use OSX?

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by bile
by r_a_trip on Mon 26th Jan 2009 14:40 in reply to "Comment by bile"
r_a_trip Member since:
2005-07-06

And how would you feel if MS got the government to for you to use one of their products?

Hilarious! We already live in a situation in which MS is manipulating governments to get them to keep using MS formats; only reliably readable in specific MS applications. Do we have to mention Massachusetts, ODF and Peter Quinn? Do we have to mention the ISO OOXML farce? Most government documents are .doc, .xls and .ppt. MS will do anything to keep that situation in place, because it forces us all to have a semi-current MS Office at hand.

It took the Dutch government years to get their heads out of their posterior and offer their tax application for Windows, Mac and Linux. Before they woke up, you could choose Windows or file your taxes on paper via snail mail. I don't have to tell anyone that paper isn't nearly as convenient as a program that helps you do the calculations. In essence the Dutch government forced the use of Windows for those who wanted to file electronically.

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE: Comment by bile
by melkor on Tue 27th Jan 2009 03:05 in reply to "Comment by bile"
melkor Member since:
2006-12-16

You are mostly correct, although posting what you said in a pro Linux/BSD environment won't win you many friends.

I'd like to see Microsoft just pull Windows and Office from Europe. Europe would sink quicker than the bloody well Titanic did. Let them use Linux and OpenOffice, boy oh boy are they in for a big surprise on both accounts.

Whilst I'm a fan of governments playing a larger role in the software industry, I don't think this is the right way to approach it. Software patents need to be removed to encourage *true* competition, not competition bullied by bigger companies that happen to hold a patent because the USPTO gave it to them on the premise of monetary exchange. Software licences need to be really hammered big time, consumers have almost *no* rights. Responsibility for software must be legislatively enforced. And government agencies must offer documents in open formats. Note that I'm not saying that they must ONLY offer open formats like some Linux nuts would suggest, but they that offer a *variety* of formats to the customer/end user.

I hope Europe has a go at Apple, since it bundles Safari with OS X, and doesn't give you the choice of not installing it. True, with OS X it's easier to get rid of Safari, but for the average user, it's probably messier, since you have to pull crap out of /Applications, /System, /library/preferences, ~/library/preferences etc I suspect. Apple is far more of a anti competitive p.o.s company that Microsoft imho.

Dave

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: Comment by bile
by lemur2 on Tue 27th Jan 2009 03:20 in reply to "RE: Comment by bile"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Europe would sink quicker than the bloody well Titanic did. Let them use Linux and OpenOffice, boy oh boy are they in for a big surprise on both accounts.


Ambit claim without any support.

There are already a significant number of European government and quasi-government departments that run on Linux and OpenOffice.

Example:

http://software.silicon.com/applications/0,39024653,39155382,00.htm

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: Comment by bile
by raver31 on Tue 27th Jan 2009 10:23 in reply to "RE: Comment by bile"
raver31 Member since:
2005-07-06

Dave, you sir are a tool

The EU is the worlds biggest market, and if Microsoft did pull Windows and Office out of it, Microsoft would go down the pan in a matter of days.

At the minute Microsoft are on a share buy-back and have already started laying off staff. Things are going downhill for them, and you want them to cut off their biggest cash cow ?

I am just glad you are not in charge of any business I have dealings with.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by bile
by gustl on Tue 27th Jan 2009 13:29 in reply to "RE: Comment by bile"
gustl Member since:
2006-01-19

I'd like to see Microsoft just pull Windows and Office from Europe. Europe would sink quicker than the bloody well Titanic did. Let them use Linux and OpenOffice, boy oh boy are they in for a big surprise on both accounts.


No, Microsoft would be in for a big surprise.
Remember the guitar-string maker Ernie Ball? He got raided by MS, which upset him so much, that he made the decision to not have anything to do with Microsoft ever again. He told his IT guys, to transform ALL of his systems within half a year.

Well, they did it, it cost them some effort and pain during the transition, but suddenly they had to spend less money on IT than before. The transition payed off during the first year of fully using the new environment.

And Windows, as well as MS Office are not the big lock-in issues any more.
The major lock-ins are Macros and some applications which don't have an equivalent Linux application.
The average Linux-distro is more than a match for Windows, and OOo is good enough for most Office workers.

If a withdrawal of Windows + MSOffice would be FORCED on the EU, we would reform the IT landscape within the first 3 Months by 90%. The rest would get skipped, because it was not needed anyway, or new Software would be written. After one year everything would work just as well (or bad) as it does now.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by bile
by Soulbender on Tue 27th Jan 2009 13:42 in reply to "RE: Comment by bile"
Soulbender Member since:
2005-08-18

I'd like to see Microsoft just pull Windows and Office from Europe. Europe would sink quicker than the bloody well Titanic did


Yes, it's a good thing Microsoft is the only manufacturer of Operating Systems. I'm sure it wouldn't at all be a big opportunity for the competition.
If you don't like the rules, you're free to not sell your product in the market.
Of course, it's all pretty moot because Microsoft won't pull anything, Europe is way to big a market to ignore.

Let them use Linux and OpenOffice, boy oh boy are they in for a big surprise on both accounts.


If everyone in Europe would use them then it wouldn't be a problem now, would it.

Apple is far more of a anti competitive p.o.s company that Microsoft imho.


Yes, they're both pretty much assholes.

I agree with you on software patents also.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by bile
by lemur2 on Thu 29th Jan 2009 01:51 in reply to "RE: Comment by bile"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

I'd like to see Microsoft just pull Windows and Office from Europe. Europe would sink quicker than the bloody well Titanic did. Let them use Linux and OpenOffice, boy oh boy are they in for a big surprise on both accounts.


Actually, at least one major European political party seems to have reached a conclusion that the use of open-source software could reduce licensing costs and free up the government from being locked into "long-term, monopoly supply situations" (their words). They seem to think it could save them, and hence the taxpayer, a considerable amount of money.

http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/news/2235240/tories-nearing-open-sourc...

Possible savings of £600m a year, claims Conservative Party


Perhaps it is Microsoft apologists of whom one could say: "boy oh boy are they in for a big surprise".

Edited 2009-01-29 01:52 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by bile
by Mellin on Fri 30th Jan 2009 00:08 in reply to "RE: Comment by bile"
Mellin Member since:
2005-07-06

a few days a go i replaced windows with ubuntu linux and it works without problems its even faster than windows

no one cares about msooxml* everyone i know delete docx xlsx pptx ..



*not iso ooxml

Reply Parent Score: 2