Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 26th Jan 2009 11:56 UTC
Internet & Networking Earlier this month, news got out that the European Commission is charging Microsoft with unlawful competition regarding its bundling of the Internet Explorer web bowser with Windows. At the time, information was scarce, but thanks to Microsoft's quarterly filing at the Securities and Exchange Commission. we now have a little more insight into what the EU might force Microsoft to do.
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lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

Why not unbundle Konqueror from KDE? or Safari? Now fanboys will start arguing oh linux gives you more choice? you can add anything etc..normal bull**** Have anyone try to uninstll konqueror without breaking up KDE..show me the steps..


One can remove Konqueror from the current version of KDE (KDE 4.1.x) without any problems whatsoever.

Steps are as follows:
apt-get remove konqueror

You can also do this using Adept Add/Remove programs, or aptitude, or synaptic.

This removes just three packages from KDE, all of them are specific to Konqueror. Not even help browsing is affected.

On a default install of KDE, removing konqueror will result in the system having no web browser. With no web browser installed, one can install another browser (or re-install konqueror) using either apt-get on the command line, aptitude from a terminal (like apt-get, but includes text menus), or via a GUI using Adept (or even Synaptic). Browsers that may be installed include those shown on the following web page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_web_browsers_for_Unix/Linux

On contrary show the steps to sureshot way to Install firefox with 'working flash' on linux without problems? If IE comes with linux version, will all distros INCLUDE IE as the fair game??


Gnash will work fine for most sites, and it is installable from the package management systems.

Failing that, 32-bit flash 10 works fine by downloading it from the Adobe web site, and running the script according to the instructions.

If you don't trust running a script, then just copy the binary executable to a spot within the libraries (say /usr/local/lib), and then make a symbolic link to it in the plugins directory of your web browser.

There is also a 64-bit version of flash 10 available from the Adobe website, but that is only a beta at this time (it works very well though). Still, that is better than Windows, for which there is no 64-bit version available at all.

As for including IE with Linux ... ask Microsoft about that, because they are the distributors of IE. Assuming that you do have a version of IE from Microsoft, Linux can run it OK under wine.

Edited 2009-01-27 03:00 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

elsewhere Member since:
2005-07-13

One can remove Konqueror from the current version of KDE (KDE 4.1.x) without any problems whatsoever.

Steps are as follows:
apt-get remove konqueror

You can also do this using Adept Add/Remove programs, or aptitude, or synaptic.

This removes just three packages from KDE, all of them are specific to Konqueror. Not even help browsing is affected.


To be fair, Konq is simply a wrapper for KHTML. Removing it doesn't remove KHTML from KDE, and KHTML is a kpart that is required by many applications beyond Konq.

I only bring this up because we've reached a point where html-processing is becoming a componet of the OS, it's that ubiquitous.

The problem we have is that everyone, whether MS, Apple, KDE, Gnome or whoever else, has their own html component that they depend on. Until the various html engines can agree to comply with a fixed set of standards, then it's not reasonable to expect platforms to test against every possible html engine.

Microsoft relies on IE as a component to the same extent that KDE relies on KHTML (ok, maybe quite a bit more). Trident is utilized for many other functions in Windows beyond web browsing. KDE by the same token now relies not only on KHTML, but Webkit as well. How would plasma fair if the Mozilla community insisted that KDE users have the option to substitute gecko as the web rendering engine instead of webkit?

Getting rid of Konq on KDE is similar to removing IE from Windows... it removes the web browsing component, but it retains the core technology.

I hate to be in the position to defend MS, but I think this situation is ridiculous. I wouldn't want the EU to dictate how KDE structures their platform architecture, so I can't morally support the same arbitrary decision being made against MS.

The only valid argument I've seen regarding MS and their "monopoly" position with regards to IE, is the fact that they have deliberately/inadvertently broken web standards to their favor. And I do think that is a serious issue, but I don't think this is the correct solution. Rather, the EU could instead insist that all EU websites and any similar web-based interaction be based upon existing web-standards, whether than conforming to Microsoft's version of the web. To a certain extent, they have facilitated the adoption of IE-standards by conforming to them, so it would send a powerful message to the EU community if IE suddenly broke when accessing gov't websites because it doesn't comply to established standards. I suspect that would go farther to addressing the core issue. Particularly if other governments followed.

I applaud the EU for standing up to Microsoft, but I can't help thinking that their sanctions accomplish very little to benefit consumers. Better that they use their weight to adopt and enforce open standards, and help shift the market to follow, rather than arbitrary punishment against MS. Governments should be enforcing openness by action, not by sanction.

Note, I'm not arguing with anything you pointed out, just "hijacking" your post to present a different perspective... ;)

Reply Parent Score: 3

lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

> To be fair, Konq is simply a wrapper for KHTML. Removing it doesn't remove KHTML from KDE, and KHTML is a kpart that is required by many applications beyond Konq.

Getting rid of Konq on KDE is similar to removing IE from Windows... it removes the web browsing component, but it retains the core technology.


Are you sure? Qt4 now contains a version of webkit. Wouldn't that be used for internal purposes and not KHTML? Qt4 is the basis, after all, of rendering the desktop in KDE.

Regardless, the point is that whatever renderer is used internal to the OS, one cannot feed it external-web-data without konqueror. This is not the case for Trident.

Trident is fed with external data from the web even if IE is s unset as the default browser, and even if the IE icon is remved from the desktop. Feeding Trident (and ActiveX) with data from the wider web still exposes the Windows system to attack. The fact that Trident (and ActiveX) cannot be removed or separated from web-originated-data is a major part of the issue.

The problem we have is that everyone, whether MS, Apple, KDE, Gnome or whoever else, has their own html component that they depend on.


Yes ... except that AFAIK, Trident (and ActiveX) for rendering and IE for web browsing is the only case where these functions are inseparably handled by the same piece of code.

In the case of Apple, KDE, Gnome or whoever else the internal uses of html rendering can be separated from the web browser.

Rather, the EU could instead insist that all EU websites and any similar web-based interaction be based upon existing web-standards, whether than conforming to Microsoft's version of the web.


I'd go with the alternative. Rather than forcing Microsoft to re-write their OS and browser, I'd just require (in the EU) that there be two separate instances of it, one instance for internal uses, and the other instance web-facing. The web-facing one would be required to be compliant with W3C standards, with no special-to-Microsoft extensions. This approach would fix the problem also.

Edited 2009-01-27 05:09 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2