Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 5th Feb 2009 21:20 UTC
Hardware, Embedded Systems Netbooks have been heralded as the foot in the door for Linux. With the launch of the earliest Eee PC models, Asus made a bold move by only offering them with Linux pre-installed; Microsoft soon responded by working with Asus to bring Windows XP to the next generation Eee PCs. Since then, Windows XP gained market share in the netbook segment rapidly, casting doubts over whether or not netbooks would really turn out to be that foot in the door. HP has today announced that its new HP Mini 1000 netbook will not be available with Linux pre-installed in Europe.
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RE: Addiction
by Anon on Fri 6th Feb 2009 05:35 UTC in reply to "Addiction"
Anon
Member since:
2006-01-02

No, it's because linux as a desktop, still doesn't match the (now) well running/well oiled XP!

Look. I've been using Linux for years now (Kubuntu, but RHEL before that), and as much as I *want* Linux to be my favourite desktop, it just doesn't have the applications and general 'glue' and windows does - which is what people want. While people talk about Win7 and Vista, I have to say, XP's still the most functional desktop O/S out there.

Reply Parent Score: 8

RE[2]: Addiction
by Laurence on Fri 6th Feb 2009 10:17 in reply to "RE: Addiction"
Laurence Member since:
2007-03-26

No, it's because linux as a desktop, still doesn't match the (now) well running/well oiled XP! Look. I've been using Linux for years now (Kubuntu, but RHEL before that), and as much as I *want* Linux to be my favourite desktop, it just doesn't have the applications and general 'glue' and windows does - which is what people want. While people talk about Win7 and Vista, I have to say, XP's still the most functional desktop O/S out there.


I guess that's a matter of perspective.
I hate using XP because, for me, it lacks many of the features I've grown to love, even depend on, in Linux (plus the DE of my choice).

In fact, I find Linux so functional and dependable that the only time I need to duck into XP is when I need to rewire FL Studio into Ableton Live (which thankfully isn't that often)

Edited 2009-02-06 10:18 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[2]: Addiction
by gustl on Fri 6th Feb 2009 10:42 in reply to "RE: Addiction"
gustl Member since:
2006-01-19

No, it's because linux as a desktop, still doesn't match the (now) well running/well oiled XP!


I think it's partly right what you say, but only partly.

The Linux distros you get on Netbooks usually are extremely dumbed-down.
Lots of work has gone into these Distributions to make them foolproof, but in the wrong direction foolproof.

When I bought my Aspire One, I had to find out, that I cannot do "whole directory tree" ftp upload with the software pre-installed on it.
With a normal distro, this would not be an issue. Just install one of the 10 ftp-programs out there, and everything is fine. Every computer-novice can do it with the graphical package management software available. But not with those braindead-distros, where you cannot easily install one single additional application without having to go through console typing.

When you get the same hardware with WinXP, you have exactly the same functionality available as on a standard desktop install, with exactly the same ways to add functionality to the netbook as on a desktop.
THAT is the real reason why people buy XP on Netbooks - because the Linux variants are seriously made less usable, and unnecessarily so.

It is NOT a problem of the average desktop Linux distribution, it is a problem of those companies not understanding what customers REALLY want.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Addiction
by mhbell on Fri 6th Feb 2009 16:17 in reply to "RE[2]: Addiction"
mhbell Member since:
2009-02-06

[quote]
It is NOT a problem of the average desktop Linux distribution, it is a problem of those companies not understanding what customers REALLY want.
[/quote]
I think you hit the nail on the head.
MH

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Addiction
by deathshadow on Sat 7th Feb 2009 11:50 in reply to "RE: Addiction"
deathshadow Member since:
2005-07-12

>> Look. I've been using Linux for years now (Kubuntu, but RHEL before that), and as much as I *want* Linux to be my favourite desktop, it just doesn't have the applications and general 'glue' and windows does

SPOT ON. I use both, and frankly for my primary workstation *nix falls flat on it's face, the appliactions just aren't there, the hardware support for the simplest of things like video is a confusing train wreck and when you actually DO find a program or driver that does what you want, the quality and interaction between them and other programs/drivers feels forced at best, nonexistant at worst.

It's why I've said time and time again *nix is for servers, windows is for desktops, and never shall the 'twain meet. I wouldn't trade my Debian Etch server for a windows one, nor would I trade my XP x64 workstation for any flavor of Linux.

X Windows is slow as molassas, unresponsive and the applications are second rate knockoffs at best - Wine is an unstable buggy mess so that's no solution either, and while crashing linux itself may be hard, x.org and xfree86 crash in so much as a stiff breeze... Multiple display support is a ******* joke - I laugh my ass off at the *nix people bragging about twinview and better xinerama support when I've been running three or more displays on multiple adapters without any problems since Windows 98 and MacOS 6. Hell, using Targa boards I had two displays under windows 3.1 - when we say *nix is in a perpetual state of playing catchup as a desktop OS, we mean it.

Blender is no 3ds Max, OoO and freetype kern text like a sweetly retarded crack addict, the Gimp is a tinkertoy, 95% of the available text editors are like a trip in the wayback machine to 1977, Pidgin and company are screen hogs next to useless even on a 1200px tall display if you have more than ten contacts, Inkscape is certainly no Illustrator, media playback is a convoluted mess of FSF whackjobs and people who want it to just work screaming at each-other over naive socialist bull, I've yet to find anything approaching the capabilities of Sonar or a softsynth, midi mapper/monitor or soundfont manager worth a damned, much less actually get 5.1 audio and output selection working.

Which means that for all it's security woes (99% of which go away if you are smart enough to never use outlook or IE), stability issues (last time I had XP lock up was... uhm... Oh... No... Oh yeah, it was when I had faulty ASIO drivers, so let's blame the OS), and other alleged issues, XP really isn't the great evil demon people make it out to be. I can run almost any software I want, I can use almost any hardware I want, with little or no restrictions once I actually pay for the software.

Sure sounds like a hell of a lot more 'freedom' than any of the rheotoric vomited up by the worshippers at the Church of Stallman.

Edited 2009-02-07 11:54 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Addiction
by earlycj5 on Sat 7th Feb 2009 14:47 in reply to "RE[2]: Addiction"
earlycj5 Member since:
2007-04-12

Heh, I think every one of those programs you list I have installed on my XP machine at work.

That said, I wouldn't trade my Ubuntu HD installation in that same computer for daily use with XP. XP has too many memory problems when I'm working with large datasets in R being a big issue for me. At least with 64bit Ubuntu I can use all 4GB of RAM installed in the machine too.

It's all in what you need and are used to. I'm convinced there is no one size fits all, that's why there are multiple OSes. Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it won't work for me spouting things like this as the truth couldn't be farther from.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Addiction
by cyclops on Sun 8th Feb 2009 00:28 in reply to "RE[2]: Addiction"
cyclops Member since:
2006-03-12

"appliactions just aren't there"

Firefox and OpenOffice and great media players considered by many to be better than their Microsoft alternatives

"the hardware support for the simplest of things like video is a confusing train wreck and when you actually DO find a program or driver that does what you want, the quality and interaction between them and other programs/drivers feels forced at best, nonexistant at worst."

X.Org configuring has gone, Distributions make the ease of bundling those 2 main culprits Amd & Nvidia and their open Source equivalents get better daily. Wireless problems is all but a thing of the past. You clearly haven't used Linux for a while. Hardware support is second to none. The only exception I can think of is PCI-E TV Cards, and I'm not sure if that is still true.


"It's why I've said time and time again *nix is for servers, windows is for desktops, and never shall the 'twain meet."

And yet two 2 *Nix platforms Mac OS X a Desktop only version has taken 10% of the market and Ubuntu a User orientated Desktop has brought Linux to the Masses.

"I wouldn't trade my Debian Etch server for a windows one, nor would I trade my XP x64 workstation for any flavor of Linux."

Personally I'd rather run all 64-bit application on my 64-bit Desktop OS that proprietary application can't seem to do, upgrade between the 32-bit version to the 64-bit for free...and its successor.


"X Windows is slow as molassas, unresponsive and the applications are second rate knockoffs at best"

I cannot think of a bundled Microsoft product that does not have an Open source equivalent that is better. X is great and GEM will make it even better. Compiz is fantastic please do not even try to compare responsiveness to Vista now that is slow as molasses, hell compiz looks fantasic on intel 915 yet Aero could cost Microsoft Billions on it.

"Wine is an unstable buggy mess so that's no solution either"

Wouldn't know I've never needed it for anything in years.

"while crashing linux itself may be hard, x.org and xfree86 crash in so much as a stiff breeze"

erm what eh, now your just throwing mud.

"... Multiple display support is a ******* joke"

I'm not sure what you mean I just click and the cube turns around an advantage over Microsoft Vista.

" - I laugh my ass off at the *nix people bragging about twinview and better xinerama support when I've been running three or more displays on multiple adapters without any problems since Windows 98 and MacOS 6. Hell, using Targa boards I had two displays under windows 3.1 - when we say *nix is in a perpetual state of playing catchup as a desktop OS, we mean it."

And yet has a compositing Desktop first, and a better one, but seriously whats wrong with either?? Where are these people bragging, Although I will Multiple Desktops were about since X11R6.4 released March 31, 1998 when Windows 98 was only launched on 25 June 1998 3 months later. I'm glad Microsoft caught up lol ;)

"Blender is no 3ds Max, OoO and freetype kern text like a sweetly retarded crack addict, the Gimp is a tinkertoy"

...and yet are enjoyed and used by many even in the film industry. Star Office was the standard for Legal documents since forever and continues to improve. If only Microsoft Products could export to PDF ;) , or you could upgrade for free, all of them at a touch of a button.

"95% of the available text editors are like a trip in the wayback machine to 1977"

You mean the graphical ones like gedit that make notepad & wordpad seem retarded and contain exiting plugins to extend their functionality.

"Pidgin and company are screen hogs next to useless even on a 1200px tall display if you have more than ten contacts,"

which is popular on Windows, but their are a large number of replaements including text only versions ;)

"Inkscape is certainly no Illustrator,"

Its not a fantastic program and one of many fine vector programs that fulfill a variety of needs.

"media playback is a convoluted mess of FSF whackjobs and people who want it to just work screaming at each-other over naive socialist bull."

Media playback is better than any platform, Although I'm confused Microsoft have broken Capitalism with there Monopoly abusing, yet *Nix has vast array of Everything from kernels to Windows Managers to Desktops
To Browsers to Office suites to Full Distributions...with a healthy ecosystem.

"I've yet to find anything approaching the capabilities of Sonar or a softsynth, midi mapper/monitor or soundfont manager worth a damned, much less actually get 5.1 audio and output selection working."

Not a clue, Sorry Other than Creative being crippled in Vista+ and Open Sourcing Drivers for Linux sound is great, and I look forward to pulseaudio. although I'm still not sure of any real advantages.

"Which means that for all it's security woes (99% of which go away if you are smart enough to never use outlook or IE)"

I'd add any Microsoft product to the list. Including their OS's

", stability issues [i](last time I had XP lock up was... uhm... Oh... No... Oh yeah, it was when I had faulty ASIO drivers, so let's blame the OS), and other alleged issues, "[/i]

Because the drivers are part of the OS ;)

"XP really isn't the great evil demon people make it out to be. I can run almost any software I want, I can use almost any hardware I want, with little or no restrictions once I actually pay for the software."

Costs thousands for the products you have listed, people don't blame the OS they blame Microsoft, but XP is an X year old product Vista has been released for 2

"Sure sounds like a hell of a lot more 'freedom' than any of the rheotoric vomited up by the worshippers at the Church of Stallman. [/q]"

Not really freedom is creating a installing an OS onto a pen drive as a standard feature, thats more freedom than Bill Gates offers with his Jihad.

Thak you for playing

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Addiction
by Jinx101 on Sun 8th Feb 2009 23:14 in reply to "RE: Addiction"
Jinx101 Member since:
2009-02-08

Meh, if I wanted to use a desktop that looked like it belonged in 1998 I'd probably still choose Windows 98 over Linux. Linux has failed to deliver to the masses. It's complicated for the average user who can't even figure out how to install most programs. You want marker share, you'll have to learn to deal with those users.

Further, the Linux community is extremly disjointed unlike the Windows and Mac communities. There's much internal bickering about which distrobution is the best and there isn't even a shared experience with the desktop since there are so many flavors out there (Oh, you use KDE, I'm on Gnome).

All of that coupled with the average smug, insulting poster turns most people away from even thinking about trying Linux. Linux has made strides, but it's not there yet (for the desktop.. for the server it's a whole 'nuther story).

Reply Parent Score: 1