Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 3rd Mar 2009 15:16 UTC, submitted by Moulinneuf
Apple Just as everyone suspected, Apple updated its various lines of desktop computers today, bringing speed and performance improvements across the board. Mac Pro, iMac, and the Mac Mini were all upgraded, and especially for the Mini, it was a long time coming. The Mac Pro sees the most changes.
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akrosdbay
Member since:
2008-06-09

"The Mac Pro is a business workstation. If it’s overkill and overpriced—there’s a reason. People confuse the Mac Pro with a standard desktop tower. The Mac Pro is in a different league, which has been shown to be cheaper than Dell workstations of the same spec.

Calling it a "business workstation" is just spin.
"

Really. Every single example in this thread for a cheaper alternative doesn't have ECC memory. You can call it what you want but a box without ECC is a PC for some one to check email not do business critical work.


We have all-in-ones at £900 and up. You find yourself unable to tell someone that they need to spend this much, when they can spend £200-300 and get something quite good enough, and use their existing perfectly good monitor.


To run pro apps with no ECC for memory not a chance. Data is the most valuable business asset. More money is lost when corruption happens than saving a few quid on purchase costs. You also want bullet proof service incase things break. Beige PCs are great but fixing things your self in a business environment costs real money.




And finally you have the Pro, with the usual mid range graphics, starting mark you, starting at £1950, which will be no better for 95% of the market than something costing £500. Calling it a 'business workstation' does not change this. Put together a decent configuration and you will be in for a thousand more! Its not even real performance. You want performance in the UK, go to Novatech, buy one of these, and fill it up with hard drives and some more memory:
http://www.novatech.co.uk/novatech/barebones.html?cpu=Intel%20i...



Again completely missing the point. No ECC no worky in Pro market. No field service support also no worky.

In all cases by the way, when you get the things configured at anything above bare bones low end specs, you'll end up spending 50% more. The memory alone must be truly workstation class, probably imported from another planet. Can't imagine how else it could cost so much to get into a machine here on earth.


ECC registered DIMMS cost more on this planet.

It is just ridiculous to go through this charade every time of taking a given Mac, duplicating it, and then proudly proclaiming that you have managed to spend more on duplicating some unbalanced dysfunctional configuration that hardly anyone ever wanted in the first place! The issue is, these are, for most people, overpriced and misconfigured niche products, that are sold by the Mac fans as mainstream. They are not. What they are is profit generating machines. There is no reason for most people to apply them to their wallets.


Wrong. With Apple I get no hassle customer service. One year of no headache, 3 with an extended service contract. If some thing is wrong I call support they ship me a box I put it in and send it 99% of the time 3 days later my machine is back working like new.

Show me that with your barebones beige box. Who do I send it to to get fixed if the harddisk craps out or memory errors suddenly cause kernel panics. Who diagnoses it and repairs it for me? You?

Edited 2009-03-04 16:30 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

alcibiades Member since:
2005-10-12

This is really the point, is it not? If you really need ECC memory, get it, pay for it, use it.

What if you don't?

The problem is NOT that the machines are expensive for what they are. The problem is they are not what 95% of the customers need. Sometimes they are too portable when they don't need portability. Sometimes they are too peformant, with too high end processors, but they have to buy them to get something better, more expandable, than the all-in-ones.

It is not the machines that are in the product line that are being criticized, its the ones that ARE NOT THERE. This is why Macs end up being too expensive. It is that you end up buying more than you need. Or taking less performance. Its a failure of product range, not of any particular product.

Got to tell you, also, Macs, particularly the all in ones, blow up far more often than medium priced x86 towers. They just do. Sorry. ECC and all.

Reply Parent Score: 2

akrosdbay Member since:
2008-06-09

This is really the point, is it not? If you really need ECC memory, get it, pay for it, use it.

What if you don't?


Let's not change the subject. Your original claim was that the "pro" in Mac Pro was marketing spin. I explained why it is not.

The problem is NOT that the machines are expensive for what they are. The problem is they are not what 95% of the customers need.


That's beside the point. The surprise success of netbooks based on the Atom processors clearly shows that 95% of the customers don't need anything more powerful than that. In fact, my wife got a Atom based netbook because it was cheap, portable and more than adequate for her work needs.

Sometimes they are too portable when they don't need portability. Sometimes they are too peformant, with too high end processors, but they have to buy them to get something better, more expandable, than the all-in-ones.


Given that laptops are outselling desktops it is safe to assume that people prefer portability over expansion and raw performance.

It is not the machines that are in the product line that are being criticized, its the ones that ARE NOT THERE. This is why Macs end up being too expensive. It is that you end up buying more than you need. Or taking less performance. Its a failure of product range, not of any particular product.


In your opinion that might bet the case. I would content that a macbook or mini is more than enough computer for the vast majority of people.


Got to tell you, also, Macs, particularly the all in ones, blow up far more often than medium priced x86 towers. They just do. Sorry. ECC and all.


Please provide some real data to back that up. ECC doesn't prevent hardware failures or manufacturing defects. ECC solves real problems, that is why all server and workstation products have it. You might think it is a marketing gimmick but here is tonne of evidence supporting why ECC is necessary. All you need to do is look at how many correctable memoy errors an average server gets per year. You wouldn't be so callous about it.

You just making a claim saying, "they just do" is just an unsubstantiated claim nothing else. Do you have any data or are you just running out of arguments?

Reply Parent Score: 1