Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sat 7th Mar 2009 23:47 UTC
Mac OS X Thanks to Ars Technica, we've got some Snow Leopard goodness for you. As always, Apple is quite secretive about its upcoming operating system, so even though test builds are released every now and then, information is scarce. An Ars reader has given some more insights into the latest Snow Leopard build, released on Friday.
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detto
Member since:
2007-11-25

That doesn't make it the proper behaviour. I'm not saying it's wrong - I'm just saying that "because it has always been like that" is not a reason not to change something.
Personally, "enter" means process, activate to me. Renaming with enter is just weird, and I've been a Mac user for a very long time.

But because in Windows and Linux it is differnt IS a reason to change it? Just because you're used to it?
I don't believe you that you've "been a Mac user for a very long time". Maybe if "long time" means "more than 2 weeks" to you. I used Windows for 5 years, followed by 3 years Linux. Since then (1 1/2 years) I'm using OS X. Guess what, I'm used to rename with Enter since several months and it really is helping to "enter, rename, enter. bam. done." OR "cmd-down several directories followed by cmd-down start the document I was looking for".

Uhm, yes, it actually does. If you select some text in document Xyz, and paste it to document Abc, it gets appended after wherever the cursor is in document Abc - leaving the text in the target document intact - merging the two.

A file is a file. Text is text. Mixing those two to produce irrelevant and confusing arguments is stupid.

When copying/pasting directories, merging should be the default because it's non-destructive and fits in better with other cases of copy/paste (like text). You could always implement a modifier to enable replace.

You could also implement a modifier to enable merge. To follow your logic (and avoid the stupid text vs file comparison, instead showing you an example file vs folder example): If I copy a file I can replace it if it exists. If I copy a folder it should replace a folder if it exists. Guess what: that's what the Finder does.

This has nothing to do with the discussion at hand, but Mac OS X has the same problems. Try deleting a file that's in use. Good luck hunting down which application is currently using it!

Congratulations! You really did NOT use OS X for a significant time. Otherwise you would know that renaming and moving files to the trash is indeed possible when it's in use by an application.

The Finder is one of the most maligned parts of the Mac OS. Even in Leopard, it is still a very cumbersome and limited file manager, which is why it receives so much ire from most reviewers.

Yes, revieweres like you are right.

Reply Parent Score: 0

Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

But because in Windows and Linux it is differnt IS a reason to change it? Just because you're used to it?


Did I say so?

I don't believe you that you've "been a Mac user for a very long time". Maybe if "long time" means "more than 2 weeks" to you. I used Windows for 5 years, followed by 3 years Linux. Since then (1 1/2 years) I'm using OS X. Guess what, I'm used to rename with Enter since several months and it really is helping to "enter, rename, enter. bam. done." OR "cmd-down several directories followed by cmd-down start the document I was looking for".


18 whole months? wow! I've been a Mac user since 2002 or 2003.

You could also implement a modifier to enable merge. To follow your logic (and avoid the stupid text vs file comparison, instead showing you an example file vs folder example): If I copy a file I can replace it if it exists. If I copy a folder it should replace a folder if it exists. Guess what: that's what the Finder does.


It's about destructiveness. It's more important that files do not get lost. Merging makes sure that this does not happen - replace makes people lose files, and there is no "undo" feature, which makes it even less desirable.

Congratulations! You really did NOT use OS X for a significant time. Otherwise you would know that renaming and moving files to the trash is indeed possible when it's in use by an application.


Yes, smartbum, and then try to empty the trash. You can indeed move a file that's in use to the trash, but if you then try to delete it, it isn't possible.

I've used Mac OS X for a long time now, since 2002/2003 (like I said, a little longer than your measly 18 months), so I know my shit.

Yes, revieweres like you are right.


I've yet to find a truly positive review of the Finder. Everyone I know hates it, most people here hate, for the simple reason that it's a very limited application.

Reply Parent Score: 3

MysterMask Member since:
2005-07-12

*sigh*
Another 'I - Thom H. - am right and Apple is wrong' rant ..


Did I say so?


No, but it is quite obvious where you get your ideas from..



It's about destructiveness. It's more important that files do not get lost. Merging makes sure that this does not happen - replace makes people lose files, and there is no "undo" feature, which makes it even less desirable.


*tss*
The OS is asking you, if you like to replace the file / folder. Nothing get's lost accidentially (if you're not stupid and blindly think that it will act like Explorer).

Merging on the other hand means that you don't know exactly what you get, because files deep down in the hierarchy you're copying should or should not be merged.
I prefere to know the outcome of an operation before I do it and the outcome is crystal clear when it comes to the Mac implementation. No silly Explorer behaviour like "Oh, sorry, I just moved half of the files you liked to move and then hit one which was locked by another process so I just stopped copying in the middle of nowhere. Go find out yourself what I did or didn't."

BTW: If you really think that losing files is bad, please tell me why the Windows 'delete' behaves differently for a local file (goes to the trash) and a file from a networked drive (will be deleted immediately). Now, that's dangerous and annoying!


You can indeed move a file that's in use to the trash, but if you then try to delete it, it isn't possible.


At least you have it in the trash and can delete it later. That's what the trash is for: mark files for later removal. So the Mac implementation is all ok.

On the other side, try moving a file in Windows to the trash. You can't. You can't mark it for removal. So you have to think about it and do it later. Do you really think this is better?!



I've used Mac OS X for a long time now, since 2002/2003 (like I said, a little longer than your measly 18 months), so I know my shit.


Time doesn't matter that much. There are users that constantly try to get it the way they are used to from other platforms and others who learn to use it how it was meant to be on the platform they use.

Maybe you should start using the Finder the way it was meant to be. E. g. the Mac Finder was designed to be used with several windows open at once unlike Explorer which is often used in a 'single window' mode and hence would be unusable without things like 'cut' to move files.


I've yet to find a truly positive review of the Finder.


No problem. Finder is a very good file browser. I really like it much, much more than inconsistent, slow and buggy Windows Explorer (and I use both on a daily basis). The fact that Windows people get problems because they expect things to behave like Explorer doesn't matter for most long time Mac users. It is not very suprising then that Mac users mostly miss other features in Finder than switchers who are not willing to learn new things.

If you don't like Finder: there are other file browsers for Mac. Find one that fits into you're small world view..

Reply Parent Score: 2

detto Member since:
2007-11-25

Did I say so?

Yes:

Personally, "enter" means process, activate to me. Renaming with enter is just weird


It's about destructiveness. It's more important that files do not get lost. Merging makes sure that this does not happen - replace makes people lose files, and there is no "undo" feature, which makes it even less desirable.

Still it is not consequent. As I said: replace file X with Y and file X is gone. Same with a folder. File=object. Folder=object. Simple as that.
Both ways are therefore acceptable. They are just different. You prefer one way but claim it to be the right one. Thats ... stupid, sorry.

You can indeed move a file that's in use to the trash, but if you then try to delete it, it isn't possible.

Because it's in use. Do you expect magic to happen?

Reply Parent Score: 1