Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 30th Mar 2009 18:43 UTC, submitted by elsewhere
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y Any discussion about GNOME vs. KDE is sure to end in tears. It's basically impossible to discuss which of these two Free desktop environments is better than the other, mostly because they cater to different types of people, with different needs and expectatotions. As such, Bruce Byfield decided to look at the two platforms from a different perspective: if we consider their developmental processes, which of the two is most likely to be more successful in the coming years?
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The Elephant in the Room
by segedunum on Mon 30th Mar 2009 22:09 UTC
segedunum
Member since:
2005-07-06

Put simply, Gnome does not have an application developers' framework and a common set of libraries underpinning it that everything uses, and it never has done. It really doesn't matter what is considered for Gnome 2.3 you can only ever be as good as the tools that you use and stand on. I'm afraid users out there just don't care about fanboys shouting about bloat, simplicity or how 'clean' a desktop is. If it doesn't have the applications and the functionality and doesn't have the tools to build that functionality then you're on the road to nowhere. Having a go at KDE 4.0 isn't going to change that either. XFCE? It sort of fills a niche, but don't make people laugh.

KDE has always had a very good object oriented framework in Qt to build from, it's gone on to another level with 4.x, is squaring up to some of the things you can do visually with Vista and OS X and with Plasma we're finally getting a decent container for developers to write all those little desktop applications and applets that provide the functionality that users want. What new applications can people write with Gnome and how will they go about doing it? Right now, the best way of getting into Gnome and GTK development is with Mono, regardless of how people might feel about it. Gnome need to recognise that to be relevant and they need to either embrace it or put serious work into learning why that is and doing something about it.

Alas, Jack Wallen's 'article' quoted by Byfield just seems to be another sad attempt to stop discussing the elephant in the room, or to stop people from seeing it because he doesn't actually discuss Gnome at all, quite apart from the deliberate inaccuracies. It's only going to get worse for people like him.

There's a lot of things in and around KDE that need improving, but I see no one else at all in the open source desktop world looking ahead and being able to look the proprietary competition in the eye developer-wise, visually or functionally.

If there ever is to be a 'Year of Desktop Linux' then open source desktops need to catch up to proprietary alternatives, not be afraid to try new ideas and make it easy to develop with for their developers. If they can't do that then we need to accept it and then all these silly articles can just end.

Reply Score: 9

RE: The Elephant in the Room
by Mystilleef on Mon 30th Mar 2009 23:51 in reply to "The Elephant in the Room"
Mystilleef Member since:
2005-06-29

That's inaccurate. Evidently, there are lots of applications
developed around GNOME/GTK+ on all kinds of platforms. That'd
be impossible if your claim is true.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RIchard James13 Member since:
2007-10-26

It is not inaccurate it is lying. Gnome certainly has the right API's anyone who has programmed a GTK app will know this. To state otherwise is lying.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: The Elephant in the Room
by Coxy on Tue 31st Mar 2009 08:03 in reply to "The Elephant in the Room"
Coxy Member since:
2006-07-01


If there ever is to be a 'Year of Desktop Linux'...


Linux was to slow, we live in the cloud age now. Most people just use their desktops to start their interface to the internet. Apart from office apps most people do everything online (webmail, etc.) through a browser.

Just my opinion.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: The Elephant in the Room
by vivainio on Tue 31st Mar 2009 20:36 in reply to "The Elephant in the Room"
vivainio Member since:
2008-12-26

Right now, the best way of getting into Gnome and GTK development is with Mono, regardless of how people might feel about it. Gnome need to recognise that to be relevant and they need to either embrace it or put serious work into learning why that is and doing something about it.


Gnome is already quite relevant as it stands - think of it as CDE of 21st century. It's stable and pretty much "ready", improving mostly in incremental fashion.

It doesn't do too bad a job as a window manager and task switcher, even if a little bloated one. They also have some pretty cool stuff brewing, like the javascript based "gnome shell".

But hopefully, they'll keep Mono out of the loop. Focus on beefing up C++ support, take good care of Python support ecosystem, play with Vala and Javascript, consider making Qt a first class Gnome development framework. Just treat that big wooden horse delivery from microsoft at the door with the respect & caution it deserves.

Mono developers will always be collecting leftovers under windows developers table. Some of us are in more of a hurry to start scavenging there, while others are probably better off letting it "play out" for a while and see where it goes. If gnome banked too heavily on Mono, by the time of the first cease & desist or "patent licensing agreement" we will have a glorious, completely free KDE 4.x platform ready to take the refugees.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: The Elephant in the Room
by lemur2 on Wed 1st Apr 2009 05:01 in reply to "RE: The Elephant in the Room"
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

But hopefully, they'll keep Mono out of the loop. Focus on beefing up C++ support, take good care of Python support ecosystem, play with Vala and Javascript, consider making Qt a first class Gnome development framework. Just treat that big wooden horse delivery from microsoft at the door with the respect & caution it deserves.


This is a good direction for GNOME. C++ rather than C, good integration with Python, Javascript etc, and ditch Mono.

Unfortunately, all of that is a quite good description of KDE4, and the opposite of what is happening with GNOME.

Reply Parent Score: 3