Linked by Thom Holwerda on Mon 30th Mar 2009 18:43 UTC, submitted by elsewhere
Talk, Rumors, X Versus Y Any discussion about GNOME vs. KDE is sure to end in tears. It's basically impossible to discuss which of these two Free desktop environments is better than the other, mostly because they cater to different types of people, with different needs and expectatotions. As such, Bruce Byfield decided to look at the two platforms from a different perspective: if we consider their developmental processes, which of the two is most likely to be more successful in the coming years?
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Requests from a user
by ephracis on Tue 31st Mar 2009 08:26 UTC
ephracis
Member since:
2007-09-23

Well, here's a list of things I would like to see in my future desktop computer running Linux and either Gnome or KDE:

* Faster, faster, faster. I want speed improvements. I want snappy, quick things that truly impresses me. I want it too be quick and snappy for a long time. Over several days. Even though I have 3 to 6 tabs open in Firefox at any given time or I run compiz with a desktop cube. My computer should not get slow just because I use it. Some days I think of the good old days when I would come before the pron jpeg would have finished loading. Isn't slugginess a thing of the past already? If we could maintain the speed of today it would be great on the computers of tomorrow. There must be a way to add functionality without compromising speed and responsiveness.

* Unity. I want it too look good from all angels. The minor requirement is that all icons are consistent. I would also like to see a good theme for both KDE and Gnome in a distro (try to make KDE apps look Gnomeish in Ubuntu for example (BY DEFAULT, I don't wanna do it post install)).

* Focus on the applications. I use apps, not a OS. I want a good backup system (with GUI, small agents on remote machines, etc). Focus on GIMP (I am a photographer, you can't blame me). A REAL video converter. I have tried Avidemux and a lot of other stuff that I found via Google. None of them did ever once convert a mkv file into a working mp4 video that played on my PS3. Not one time did it work. Same goes for Windows, except it's the other way around.

* Real translation. Everything should be translated. It looks unprofessional. I tip here is to look at translation on Launchpad. It is as easy as typing a word into a textline and submit. If translation is easy more people will do it. And we need more translation.

* Real testing. Come on.. KDE4, PulseAudio, ATI drivers, etc. In some cases there could have been more testing and better QA before release. In other cases users affected with a huge bug should have been warned prior to update (for example, if I choose to upgrade my Mandriva, I use ATI and it will totally break after the upgrade, it is not enough just to put some text on the release notes on the website. There should be a popup/notification! "Your system will render unusable and irritate you, your screen will look weird and it will be much slower. Continue?"

Everything I just said should be taken with a grain of salt. I am just one user and my opinion is my own and only my own. I myself have found many points inside this text that I could easily challenge. But I don't really care today (maybe some other day), my point now was just that. To tell what I want.

So please, don't highlight details, I will only respond to comments that recognises the big picture (of course, you may highlight flaws in there, just keep out of the details).

Best regards and everything,

Reply Score: 1

RE: Requests from a user
by KAMiKAZOW on Tue 31st Mar 2009 10:09 in reply to "Requests from a user"
KAMiKAZOW Member since:
2005-07-06

Well, here's a list of things I would like to see in my future desktop computer running Linux and either Gnome or KDE:

* Faster, faster, faster. I want speed improvements

Qt 4.5 is way faster than 4.4. KDE releases compiled with Qt 4.5 (some distros offer KDE 4.2 with Qt 4.5, officially KDE only targets Qt 4.5 with KDE 4.3).

* Unity. I want it too look good from all angels. The minor requirement is that all icons are consistent. I would also like to see a good theme for both KDE and Gnome in a distro (try to make KDE apps look Gnomeish in Ubuntu for example (BY DEFAULT, I don't wanna do it post install)).

Qt 4.5 also offers that. If your distro doesn't do it right, blame them for broken packaging.

A REAL video converter. I have tried Avidemux and a lot of other stuff that I found via Google. None of them did ever once convert a mkv file into a working mp4 video that played on my PS3.

Then it's your fault for not knowing which specific sub-set of MPEG features are found on the PS3. HandBrake offers a PS3 preset, btw.

* Real translation. Everything should be translated. It looks unprofessional. I tip here is to look at translation on Launchpad. It is as easy as typing a word into a textline and submit. If translation is easy more people will do it. And we need more translation.

No! Don't use Launchpad! It's a waste of time!
First of all, GNOME and KDE are already translated into many languages. It's launchpad that corrupts the translations!
Want proof? Here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/19616885@N00/2991042741/in/set-7215760... vs. http://www.flickr.com/photos/19616885@N00/2991047111/in/set-7215760...
More examples: http://www.flickr.com/photos/19616885@N00/sets/72157608562200171/

Canonical also doesn't put translations upstream. Putting tranlation work into Launchpad is like throwing gold bars into a black hole. The only good way to support the tranlation teams is by going directly to the software project. Big projects like KDE have translation teams for each language (usually one team for apps and one for documentation). Contact them and ask where you can help.

KDE has also a very easy to use translation app called Lokalize. It's just as easy as Launchpad, just without the web browser.

* Real testing. Come on..

When you use distros that don't have the man-power to do the testing, it's your fault. Debian, SUSE, and Red Hat have this man power. I've excluded Fedora from that list (even though it's by Red Hat), because it's bleeding edge on purpose.
Canonical has a lot of hype around it, but it does not have a lot of man-power. Up until now there's only a single person employed by Canonical to do everything KDE-related (Jonathan Riddell). Only recently there was a second person hired (the Gwenview developer), but he only works on the new notification system and his work won't show up until Kubuntu 9.10.

So please, don't highlight details, I will only respond to comments that recognises the big picture

I don't care whether or not I recieve the blessing of an answer by you. :-P

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[2]: Requests from a user
by ephracis on Tue 31st Mar 2009 10:48 in reply to "RE: Requests from a user"
ephracis Member since:
2007-09-23

So please, don't highlight details, I will only respond to comments that recognises the big picture

I don't care whether or not I recieve the blessing of an answer by you. :-P

You're blessed. I said I wouldn't answer but I am bored. ;)

* Faster, faster, faster. I want speed improvements

Qt 4.5 is way faster than 4.4. KDE releases compiled with Qt 4.5 (some distros offer KDE 4.2 with Qt 4.5, officially KDE only targets Qt 4.5 with KDE 4.3).


I want more speed. I want speed that doesn't exist today. I want amazing speed that just leaves me astonished.

I am not saying that speed today is the worst ever. I am just saying that in my personal utopia everything is amazingly fast and that speed should be high priority. The goal should be that utopia. I know it is, I just want to put more emphasis on it as a priority. That's why it was first on the list.

* Unity. I want it too look good from all angels. The minor requirement is that all icons are consistent. I would also like to see a good theme for both KDE and Gnome in a distro (try to make KDE apps look Gnomeish in Ubuntu for example (BY DEFAULT, I don't wanna do it post install)).

Qt 4.5 also offers that. If your distro doesn't do it right, blame them for broken packaging.

I am not looking for someone to blame. The closest I have to "Mrs/Mr Average User" is my mom. She wouldn't care who's fault it is and just blame "Linux". It does not matter who is to blame. I am just saying I want more consistency and a more unified desktop experience.

A REAL video converter. I have tried Avidemux and a lot of other stuff that I found via Google. None of them did ever once convert a mkv file into a working mp4 video that played on my PS3.

Then it's your fault for not knowing which specific sub-set of MPEG features are found on the PS3.

It's bad to blame the user for inferior technical knowledge. I did a lot of trying to get the audio and video encoded with the right codecs using different tools. I stopped when I got video working but couldn't find out why the sound did not work. I even compared stuff like bitrates and resolution to those of working files downloaded from the Playstation Store.

Anyway, that's soooo OT right now. My point is: the user should not need to know that stuff anyway. It should be a matter of just point-and-click. That's how you can do it in Windows, I would like that in Linux. Just a personal wish, I am tried of doing technical stuff that only rewards me with the ability to store a video on my PS3. It's not worth it and it's a monkey-job that my computer should handle for me, so I can concentrate on fun, technical stuff instead. ;)

HandBrake offers a PS3 preset, btw.

Oh, I haven't heard of HandBrake. Cool, I'll check it out. Thanks!

* Real translation. Everything should be translated. It looks unprofessional. I tip here is to look at translation on Launchpad. It is as easy as typing a word into a textline and submit. If translation is easy more people will do it. And we need more translation.

No! Don't use Launchpad! It's a waste of time!
First of all, GNOME and KDE are already translated into many languages. It's launchpad that corrupts the translations!

I used the Launchpad translation as an example of how the translation should be done. It should be a webpage with a textline. I don't care that address that webpage has, as long as I can easily find my program and start translating in a matter of seconds.

Big projects like KDE have translation teams for each language (usually one team for apps and one for documentation). Contact them and ask where you can help.

Again, I don't want to send mails, ask people. I want a webpage where I can see a line that is not translated and I can type in a suggestion and know that it will probably get into an update in the near future. Let everyone who has spare time translate without any hussle.

KDE has also a very easy to use translation app called Lokalize. It's just as easy as Launchpad, just without the web browser.

What if I want to translate Firefox or GIMP? Or what if I am at a Windows computer that doesn't allow custom installations?

Going back to my utopia there would be a unified system for translation where a single point where a normal user without any prior experience can just send in suggestions of translation to a translation team, for any program that he uses, be it Gnome, KDE or anything else.

* Real testing. Come on..

When you use distros that don't have the man-power to do the testing, it's your fault. Debian, SUSE, and Red Hat have this man power. I've excluded Fedora from that list (even though it's by Red Hat), because it's bleeding edge on purpose.
Canonical has a lot of hype around it, but it does not have a lot of man-power. Up until now there's only a single person employed by Canonical to do everything KDE-related (Jonathan Riddell). Only recently there was a second person hired (the Gwenview developer), but he only works on the new notification system and his work won't show up until Kubuntu 9.10.

And even once more you miss my point. I am not blaming anyone! I am just saying want I want to see improved and the first thing you do is pointing fingers and telling me who is to blame for that. As a user I don't care. I just want it done. This is just something that I see as a priority issue and in new light of your comment I guess I should add to my utopia: more staff for everyone!

Now I am not bored anymore. Thank you and have a nice day. I know I will.

EDIT: Oh, and by the way. I am a little surprised that you went through a whole post with the single mission of taking all my problems and telling me who's fault it is. Sometimes it's my fault, or the distros, or the packagers. I don't like blame. I like progress and improvements. But in this case I was merely telling my biggest issues and I would appreciate it if you could tell me yours.

Edited 2009-03-31 10:56 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1