Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 31st Mar 2009 15:47 UTC, submitted by Rahul
Fedora Core The Fedora team has announced the Fedora 11 beta release. It comes packed with new features, such as Ext4 as the default filesystem, Nouveau driver by default, kernel mode setting on Intel, ATI and Nvidia drivers, many virtualization improvements, IBus input method, GCC 4.4, and much more.
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RE[3]: Ext4 as default
by sbergman27 on Tue 31st Mar 2009 19:09 UTC in reply to "RE[2]: Ext4 as default"
sbergman27
Member since:
2005-07-24

read Linus comment about ext4 about at lkml after 2.6.29 release.

I've been waiting for that. Could you post a link. I'll be googling for it. But in the twisty, tangly web of lkml posts, one never knows if he's seen all the relevant ones.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: Ext4 as default
by Rahul on Tue 31st Mar 2009 19:17 in reply to "RE[3]: Ext4 as default"
Rahul Member since:
2005-07-06

Try the thread on

http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.linux.kernel/811167/focus=811431

There are multiple sub-threads on that topic so you will have to go back and forth a bit.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Ext4 as default
by sbergman27 on Tue 31st Mar 2009 19:21 in reply to "RE[4]: Ext4 as default"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Thanks. The first one I found with my google search was this doozy, in which Linus goes so far as to label Ted "incompetent":

========================
On Tue, 24 Mar 2009, Theodore Tso wrote:
>
> Try ext4, I think you'll like it. :-)
> Failing that, data=writeback for single-user machines is probably your best bet.

Isn't that the same fix? ext4 just defaults to the crappy "writeback" behavior, which is insane. Sure, it makes things _much_ smoother, since now the actual data is no longer in the critical path for any journal writes, but anybody who thinks that's a solution is just incompetent.

We might as well go back to ext2 then. If your data gets written out long after the metadata hit the disk, you are going to hit all kinds of bad issues if the machine ever goes down.

Linus
=======================

Edited 2009-03-31 19:25 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[4]: Ext4 as default
by broch on Tue 31st Mar 2009 19:26 in reply to "RE[3]: Ext4 as default"
broch Member since:
2006-05-04

no problem:
http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/3/24/460
http://lkml.org/lkml/2009/3/24/415

of course I would suggest to read all because there are different arguments and points of view.
However, one cannot call something "thoroughly tested" if patch was introduced recently.
That is a whole point.

Moreover this (data loss) was a problem with xfs, which was fixed two years ago (patched in 2007). So with all due respect for ext4 developers (including the one who came from xfs), it seems that they may somehow skip other obvious (and well described) reasons for fs malfunctioning.

I have no doubts that eventually all problems will be ironed out, but I don't think that this is it now.

From what I understood Linus was mostly complaining about the default settings for ext4 which could cause dataloss. However, you only need to specify one single option when mounting ext4 and the problem goes away.

that is not what this bug was/is about. The problem is with the order data are written.
If you apply this "single option" you can as well go back to ext3 which is better tested.

Edited 2009-03-31 19:32 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[5]: Ext4 as default
by Rahul on Tue 31st Mar 2009 19:35 in reply to "RE[4]: Ext4 as default"
Rahul Member since:
2005-07-06

"Moreover this (data loss) was a problem with xfs, which was fixed two years ago (patched in 2007). So with all due respect for ext4 developers (including the one who came from xfs), it seems that they may somehow skip other obvious (and well described) reasons for fs malfunctioning."

Err, all the patches going into 2.6.30 are based on the same hacks that went into XFS.

http://lwn.net/Articles/323752/

Reply Parent Score: 1