Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 2nd Apr 2009 16:12 UTC, submitted by Rahul
Only a few days ago, we ran an article on the future of KDE and GNOME, and which of the two had the brighter future based on their developmental processes. Barely has that discussion ended, or the GNOME engineering team comes with a pretty daunting plan to introduce a fairly massive reworking of the GNOME interface for GNOME 3.0 (2.30). Read on for the details.
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RE[14]: you know what sucks?
by superstoned on Mon 6th Apr 2009 18:34
in reply to "RE[13]: you know what sucks?"
Member since:2005-07-07
Read what I said, Jos. You asked what I thought could be done about KDE's menu mess. I said that someone was probably going to have to do that boring work, and take things on a case by case basis.
Oh, come on, you can't pretend to think I don't know that - of course it's gonna be a lot of work! Nothing new there. Many developers already have been doing a lot of boring work in that area, and I think it's sad that you don't recognize that.
My point was (and is) that many users don't seem to see how much has already been done, and how their time wasted complaining could be spend a lot better in actually helping out a bit. Many usability issues are very hard to find a solution for - the actual coding isn't the worst part. Yet the KDE usability team has a huge lack of resources.
And in that specific instance, I asked if YOU knew a good solution to the 'mess in the menu'. Apparently, you have no clue (I'm assuming here that if you did, you would've given your input). Well, don't be surprised if the developers don't, either. We NEED people who are willing to help think about creative and effective solutions for such issues. Usability isn't about removing features (like gnome did). We think usability is about finding better solutions which are both powerful and easy - like Peter did when he wrote dolphin's breadcrump bar.
If you want to have true usability, the devs are going to have to be willing to do the boring work in addition to the fun work. Looking at KDE's history, it doesn't surprise me that you are having trouble registering that. No doubt you want to be able to write a few lines of code that will do it all for you. Buy sometimes you can't just do that. Your can devs can kid themselves for years end, pretending that it is possible. But users still see the truth.
I think it's an insult to all the developers who have spend so much of their time doing exactly what you're saying here they never did. Luckily most users recognize that.
RE[15]: you know what sucks?
by sbergman27 on Tue 7th Apr 2009 00:59
in reply to "RE[14]: you know what sucks?"
Member since:2005-07-24
Oh, come on, you can't pretend to think I don't know that - of course it's gonna be a lot of work!
As I said. You guys have never had a problem with hard work. It's the boring work that your guys avoid like the plague. KDE programmers say over and over again that they work on KDE for the fun of it. Perhaps that has its drawbacks. Perhaps it is not the route to the best desktop environment. Perhaps it gets you part of the way there, but not the whole way there.
And in that specific instance, I asked if YOU knew a good solution to the 'mess in the menu'.
I don't have a step by step recipe. The more popular Gnome Desktop Environment solved the problem some years ago. Perhaps you should ask its devs.
I think it's an insult to all the developers who have spend so much of their time doing exactly what you're saying here they never did.
Really? I would think that those who have would take it as a vote of confidence. If anything, I would expect them to be put off that they have never received adequate support and help from the rest of the KDE project.
Edited 2009-04-07 01:02 UTC
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Member since:
2005-07-24
Read what I said, Jos. You asked what I thought could be done about KDE's menu mess. I said that someone was probably going to have to do that boring work, and take things on a case by case basis.
If you want to have true usability, the devs are going to have to be willing to do the boring work in addition to the fun work. Looking at KDE's history, it doesn't surprise me that you are having trouble registering that. No doubt you want to be able to write a few lines of code that will do it all for you. Buy sometimes you can't just do that. Your can devs can kid themselves for years end, pretending that it is possible. But users still see the truth.