Linked by Rahul on Thu 9th Apr 2009 21:15 UTC
GTK+ The Gtk+ team is working on a roadmap to structure the development process of the Gtk+ 3.0 release and to open up the involved decision making progress. The first draft has been sent to the devel mailing list, and is now open for debate. Coincidentally, the draft roadmap also provides a nice overview of the features and changes planned for Gtk+ 3.0.
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RE: How about
by J. M. on Fri 10th Apr 2009 04:47 UTC in reply to "How about"
J. M.
Member since:
2005-07-24

GTK+ GUIs look professional exactly because they use white space. Windows 95 and Word 97 come from the old era when monitors were small, so every pixel on the screen was precious. But in the 3rd millenium, crammed GUIs with no spaces from the 90's era are just awkward and amateurish. Every professional designer knows that you have to add white space to make the elements stand out more and make the UI more comfortable to use. And good-looking, of course.

Besides, this has nothing to do with GTK+. GTK+ by default does not add any white space around its elements (containers, buttons, frames etc.) The white space is added by the application developers and GUI designers, usually following the GNOME HIG, which describes exactly how much white space you should add to dialogs etc. This makes GNOME GUIs look very clean and consistent. The button size is also dictated by its contents (text, icons), plus its packing properties. Again, this has nothing to do with GTK+, which allows you to make windows, buttons etc. as small and ugly as you want. But fortunately, the GNOME developers follow GUI principles designed by UI experts.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: How about
by OSGuy on Fri 10th Apr 2009 06:27 in reply to "RE: How about"
OSGuy Member since:
2006-01-01

I am sorry but I have to disagree with you. You see I think the exact opposite of everything you said. You say using white is professional? May be but everything has limits. Have you ever seen Microsoft and Apple using white space the way GNOME/GTK use it?

But it's not all about white space. Controls/Widgets in GTK applications have no ecstasy. They look like they are just thrown there without any thought. This is especially relevant to toolbars. When I refer to GNOME over here, I refer to all apps belonging to GNOME and these include AbiWord and GNumeric and all of the developers developing with the GTK. It is *not* all about spaces. It is also about the way the combo boxes, toolbars, buttons etc look. Compare a Windows 95/Windows 7 style combo box with one of GTK’s? The GTK one would be almost twice the size in width and height comparing to the Windows one regardless what theme you use. I have not seen *one* descent theme for GTK. (Actually I’d be lying. The Redmond 95 is more descent but again needs more work).

You believe AbiWord’s look is professional and MS Word is not? I hope you are joking. No offense to you or the GTK developers but if the majority of GTK developers think like what you have said in your post, I have one message for all of you. Good luck to your desktop aspirations.

I feel a bit sorry for Canonical. Ubuntu is such a solid distribution, everything is automated for you, automatic codec download, settings, drivers etc but unfortunately suffers from my “self-proclaimed issues”.

If GNOME looked and behaved anything like what MS and Apple and even eComStation have done, Ubuntu will take down Windows without a doubt! But the problem is it just does not.

The GNOME panel is not even comparable to the Win 98 taskbar and there is like 10/11 years difference between now and then.

Edited 2009-04-10 06:46 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 7

RE[3]: How about
by J. M. on Fri 10th Apr 2009 08:16 in reply to "RE[2]: How about"
J. M. Member since:
2005-07-24

Widgets are themeable, so if combo box in GTK+ looks too big to you, you you're using a theme that's not suitable to you. Again, that's not GTK+'s fault.

For the white space, one of the suggestions for GTK+ 3.0 is themeable padding. That would probably mean that people who like crammed, crowded GUIs could use a theme with smaller padding.

Widgets in GNOME GUIs are definitely not thrown there without any thought. They are thrown there according to the official GNOME Human Interface Guidelines, which is a very thoughtful piece of work (by far the most professional GUI guidelines in the free software world, comparable perhaps to the Apple Mac OS X HIG).

And I am not talking about Abiword. You either talk about GNOME, GTK+ or Abiword. Those are three completely different things. If Abiword's GUI is bad, it's Abiword's fault. It is perfectly possible to make a toolbar with tiny little icons and buttons in GTK+. The Abiword developers did not make such toolbar. Nothing to do with GTK+.

Edited 2009-04-10 08:26 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: How about
by FooBarWidget on Fri 10th Apr 2009 10:26 in reply to "RE[2]: How about"
FooBarWidget Member since:
2005-11-11

And I disagree with you.

I'm typing this post from a Mac because my Linux laptop's hard drive died. I've been using OS X for a while now and everything - buttons, toolbar buttons, text, etc. - is just too damn small. GTK's spacing is good and I want it back. Just because Apple and MS use small spacing doesn't mean it's good.

I'm sorry I have to disagree with your statement "spending your time on useless animation effects" as well. Animation effects are definitely not useless. Although I prefer Linux/GTK over OS X, the animations in OS X are one of the things that OS X does right and that GTK should adopt. Smooth, subtle animations makes the entire UI much more pleasant to work with.

Edited 2009-04-10 10:30 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: How about
by boblowski on Fri 10th Apr 2009 06:59 in reply to "RE: How about"
boblowski Member since:
2007-07-23

GTK+ GUIs look professional exactly because they use white space. Windows 95 and Word 97 come from the old era when monitors were small, so every pixel on the screen was precious.


Sorry, but monitors are still small. Even my 24" is f*cking small for most of the work I have to do. I hate any waste of screen real estate -- silly big fancy buttons, big fluffy Macintosh fonts, MS ribons (especially those), and yes, inefficient toolbars/panels as well.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: How about
by J. M. on Fri 10th Apr 2009 08:03 in reply to "RE[2]: How about"
J. M. Member since:
2005-07-24

In other words, you're a geek.

Nothing wrong with that, but Microsoft, Apple and GNOME developers don't make GUIs for geeks. They make GUIs for 99% of people.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: How about
by dnebdal on Fri 10th Apr 2009 10:56 in reply to "RE[2]: How about"
dnebdal Member since:
2008-08-27

Myeah, what he said.
I use two 19" LCDs now - which is about enough for my desk and seating distance. This gives me 2x 1280x1024.

Looking at my shopping history, the last CRT I bought was in 2001, and that one apparently did 1280x1024 (@ 89 Hz). That was a 4:3 monitor, though, so if I used the more appropriate 1280x960 I've gained 6% since then.

Of course, I now have double the number of monitors, but each single app typically stays on one of them: In effect, I don't have significantly more space to waste.

Reply Parent Score: 1