Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 10th Apr 2009 15:43 UTC, submitted by Alexander Yerenkow
PC-BSD PC-BSD, the desktop-oriented FreeBSD variant, has released version 7.1, dubbed Galileo. In case you don't know, PC-BSD is a FreeBSD distribution with lots of customisations focussed on the desktop user. Its most defining features is the Push Button Installer, a self-contained package format with handy installers/uninstallers. PC-BSD 7.1 comes loaded with changes and updates.
Thread beginning with comment 358044
To view parent comment, click here.
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
RE: Comment by Stephen!
by DrillSgt on Fri 10th Apr 2009 17:36 UTC in reply to "Comment by Stephen!"
DrillSgt
Member since:
2005-12-02

"and using PBIs to install apps is pure genius, succeeding where Linux fails.”

Criticising Linux seems rather arrogant of them.


Constructive criticism is always a good thing. That is not actually arrogant, but a statement of fact. To be fair Linux *has* come a long way, however it still has ways to go. PBI's work the way a software installer should work.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[2]: Comment by Stephen!
by righard on Fri 10th Apr 2009 18:27 in reply to "RE: Comment by Stephen!"
righard Member since:
2007-12-26

What is so great about PBI's?
In Arch Linux, for example, if I want something I just type:
pacman -S something
What is so difficult about that, except that it's less similar to the way Windows and MacOS do it?

(I'm not trying to bash here, I really don't understand it, please explain...)

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: Comment by Stephen!
by poundsmack on Fri 10th Apr 2009 18:34 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Stephen!"
poundsmack Member since:
2005-07-13

typing anything (or deveation from something as simple as double clicking something) is a problem with gaining wide spread addoption. I am not saying its the best aproach (though i like it the best) but its the reality of teh situation.

The good news is, when you control the market or you do have a good chunk in it, you can change things at will and your customers will follow you blindly. Some out of not knowing any better (windows users) others (Apple users) because their god told them too and Jobs, errr I mean god is apparently infallible in their eyes.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by Stephen!
by DrillSgt on Fri 10th Apr 2009 18:43 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Stephen!"
DrillSgt Member since:
2005-12-02

What is so great about PBI's?
In Arch Linux, for example, if I want something I just type:
pacman -S something
What is so difficult about that, except that it's less similar to the way Windows and MacOS do it?

(I'm not trying to bash here, I really don't understand it, please explain...)


Not taken as bashing. I know you can type those commands, and installing the software is easy. The difference in using a PBI is there are no dependencies to worry about, everything is in the package. You also don't have to install as root, as everything can be installed in the home directory. Yes, that can be done on Linux if comiling from source, but when using the repos you need to hope that all the repos are up and running. With a PBI, once you get it, you can install it while disconnected from the net, as there is nothing else to get and no dependencies to download.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[3]: Comment by Stephen!
by shadoweva09 on Fri 10th Apr 2009 19:25 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Stephen!"
shadoweva09 Member since:
2008-03-10

What is so great about PBI's?
In Arch Linux, for example, if I want something I just type:
pacman -S something
What is so difficult about that, except that it's less similar to the way Windows and MacOS do it?

(I'm not trying to bash here, I really don't understand it, please explain...)


All of the things that can lead it not to work. No internet connection, bad/old 3rd party software not working because of some problem with dependency x (rename, merged, marked unsafe by disro maintainers), typing errors, etc... While you don't have any problems, an unacceptable amount of people will have the problems and it just isn't compatible with that "it just works" feeling. (Also the source of "internet front-end" descriptions.) It's not difficult, it's just not that likely to work once you want the latest open source stuff that isn't in the repository or 3rd party software.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by Stephen!
by Doc Pain on Fri 10th Apr 2009 20:50 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Stephen!"
Doc Pain Member since:
2006-10-08

What is so great about PBI's?
In Arch Linux, for example, if I want something I just type:
pacman -S something
What is so difficult about that, except that it's less similar to the way Windows and MacOS do it?


In a standard FreeBSD environment, you usually type

pkg_add -r something

to install from a precompiled package, or, for example,

portinstall category/thing

if you wish to compile yourself. This will retrieve dependencies needed.

The goal of PBI is that the package already contains the dependencies.

The fact that PBIs are usually obtained using a web browser for first manually downloading them onto the hard disk and then executing them in order to start the installation is, in my opinion, a means to make "Windows" users feel comfortable. They're usually not used to a central means of searching, installing, deinstalling and upgrading software - that's what FreeBSD has its Ports Collection for. No, they know how to search for software on the web, using search engines and then downloading things from web pages. So PC-BSD allows them to keep it their way while installing a UNIX application, even involving things like "yes, ok, next, next, next, finish" to occupy you with activity during the installation that forces you to be present at the machine. :-)

PBIs could be offered for third party software by different vendors, that wouldn't be a problem because the tools to create PBI files are free. PC-BSD has its own "PBI shop" where you can search for things and download them.

It's worth mentioning that their PBI directory doesnÄt cover all the software that's available via Ports or packages, for example teTeX. But those who want LaTeX on their machine, instead of using KOffice, are usually smart enough to "pkg_add -r teTeX", which is again no problem even if you're using PC-BSD.

(I'm not trying to bash here, I really don't understand it, please explain...)


PC-BSD offers what most "Windows" users - who I think is the main target audience - are familiar with. And yes, I really think downloading software from the web and then manually installing it is old fashioned. :-)

Edited 2009-04-10 20:53 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 4

RE[3]: Comment by Stephen!
by Liquidator on Sat 11th Apr 2009 05:51 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Stephen!"
Liquidator Member since:
2007-03-04

I just type


Yep, that's the problem

except that it's less similar to the way Windows and MacOS do it?


Yet another problem you pointed out here.
See...What is easier for you is not necessary for someone else.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Stephen!
by OSGuy on Sat 11th Apr 2009 05:08 in reply to "RE: Comment by Stephen!"
OSGuy Member since:
2006-01-01

Constructive criticism is always a good thing. That is not actually arrogant, but a statement of fact. To be fair Linux *has* come a long way, however it still has ways to go. PBI's work the way a software installer should work.


A statement indeed, one to which I agree. PBI is the way to go. apt-get is good and practical but PBI is more reliable and user friendly. Reliable by means of not requiring a constant network connection, user friendly because it works and behaves as one would expect (one coming from Windows) which also happens to be their target audience. PBI is unique, leave it alone. If you don't like it, use ports but do not limit freedom. After all, don't you all say it is all about freedom? ;) Then why criticize freedom, you are free to choose and go for FreeBSD if you wish, the choice is here and yours to make.

Edited 2009-04-11 05:10 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: Comment by Stephen!
by Almindor on Sat 11th Apr 2009 07:53 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by Stephen!"
Almindor Member since:
2006-01-16

PBIs have their problems. Biggest hurdle I see is the lack of proper global library installation.

If you need a program which creates other programs (compiler, framework etc.) you NEED those libraries installed globally. PBIs don't do that, they only install locally for given program. In cases like these you either have to resort to hacks (make the PBI install scripts add libs to global paths) or ports/packages.

Otherwise I think it's a nice end-user installer principle, considering todays RAM and disk sizes (because saving a few mb by sharing a .so isn't really that important nowadays).

Reply Parent Score: 2