Linked by Thom Holwerda on Sun 12th Apr 2009 10:55 UTC
OSNews, Generic OSes The weeks just keep flying by, don't they? It's time for another Week in Review, and this time, we actually have a few interesting things to review. Microsoft is going on the full assault against Apple and Linux on netbooks, Canonical retaliates, the IBM-Sun deal is still the talk of the week, and we did a podcast. This week's My Take isn't a happy one, but it is an important one.
Thread beginning with comment 358257
To read all comments associated with this story, please click here.
"We can learn so much"
by oelewapperke on Sun 12th Apr 2009 11:47 UTC
oelewapperke
Member since:
2006-10-16

moral superiority over the rest of the world, just because we go to a voting booth every four years, but the fact of the matter is that we can learn so much from other cultures.

Gee I wonder which culture pushed that whole forgiveness thing ? I seem to recall something about a carpenter that got killed by Roman soldiers. Might have something to do with it ...

We are losing our moral superiority, due to idiocy like this. If we learn from Rwanda's example, we will allow massive fertility, leading to shortages, and we will learn to allow massacres to solve the problem the idiotically large birth rate caused (yes ours is too small, but only a little bit, we certainly cannot survive even small minorities with a birthrate of 5 or higher)

And then we'll have to do it again, 10 years later.

Surely we can learn so much from other cultures. Or maybe Rwanda could learn a thing or two from us.

We should have confidence in our own culture, and look specifically for little things that some other cultures improve slightly. We should copy those small things, and for the rest push our own culture onto them.

Sorry, but one's view of Rwanda changes once you've actually seen the place and met the people. The problem in Rwanda is the remainder of the ottoman muslim culture and the constant population explosions and civil wars it causes. The problem is muslim "black gold" (and no, I don't mean oil, I mean the black gold from before 1950, black slaves, kidnapped and sold into slavery by muslim ottoman provincial theocracies).

Reply Score: -1

RE: "We can learn so much"
by Thom_Holwerda on Sun 12th Apr 2009 12:03 in reply to ""We can learn so much""
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

Muslims? Are we talking about the same country? Rwanda has a Muslim population that's smaller than that of many European countries. 93.5% is Christian, 4.6% Muslim.

I'm wondering whether or not you are actually talking about Rwanda - I think you are referring to maybe Sudan or Somalia. Rwanda is too much to the south to have fallen under Islam influences.

As of the bible reference... Practice and preaching, huge difference between the two. Especially since the Genocide in Rwanda was christians killing Christians. You know, like most other wars in the world were Christians killing Christians. Religion had nothing to do with the Genocide, as it was a strictly racial issue. Rwanda has been a purely Christian country/kingdom for ages.

Edited 2009-04-12 12:14 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 6

RE[2]: "We can learn so much"
by zima on Sun 12th Apr 2009 13:11 in reply to "RE: "We can learn so much""
zima Member since:
2005-07-06

While I generally agree with what you're saying (and as for general topic, I guess I won't say much more - it's hard to add anything...), I don't see the reason to paint christianity in such a bad light in comparison to other religions.

Most of religions are flawed like that / don't work as advertised.

Edited 2009-04-12 13:12 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: "We can learn so much"
by kaiwai on Sun 12th Apr 2009 14:06 in reply to ""We can learn so much""
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

Unfortunately you won't win favours by many here unless you subscribe to cultural and moral relativism that seems to pervade the post modern west. What is worse these days is the inability by some to separate culture from race - the net result is that they interpolate race and culture together to the point that one can't separate. Infact, they commit the same fallacy which racists do - a racist makes the claim that there is knowledge that is acquired through the genes which makes one race better than another.

What the cultural relativist does is pretty much the same claim - that the knowledge, namely 'culture', is genetically spread. What they also claim within the same breath is that since these things are genetic that they aren't responsible for what happens which then spread outs into moral relativism and how westerners are all too happy to shrink away from advocating human rights in non-Western countries under the cop out story of, "I don't want to impose our values on them" (which is a nice way of saying, "I don't think those people of a different race are worth of having the same human rights that I do").

Oh well, I'm bracing myself to get modded down to minus 3000.

Edited 2009-04-12 14:11 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 5

pg--az Member since:
2006-03-15

inability by some to separate culture from race


Separation-of-variables is a nice holy grail. In Physics I learned to check for nice decomposition into rectangular or polar coordinates. The trajectory of a napkin falling inside the Starship Enterprise at Warp 6.

Co-evolution is of course more intricate - sexual selection in Birds-of-Paradise...

Generally African Culture seems have settled into "Crazy Eddie" mode a la Niven-and-Pournelle. Focusing on the killing-binge-phase of Rwanda, the baby-binge is forgotten.

Check out "The Great Somali Welfare Hunt" for insight as to what happens when Crazy-Eddie meets our high-minded-culture. Crazy-Eddie is close to a "Dominant Strategy" in game-theory-speak. Garrett Hardin always reminded one that "Crazy Eddie" was a difficult strategy to beat, tit-for-tat all you want.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: "We can learn so much"
by StephenBeDoper on Sun 12th Apr 2009 19:18 in reply to ""We can learn so much""
StephenBeDoper Member since:
2005-07-06

Gee I wonder which culture pushed that whole forgiveness thing ? I seem to recall something about a carpenter that got killed by Roman soldiers. Might have something to do with it ...


Riiiight. You, there's a quote that nicely sums up my feelings on that line of reasoning:

"Jesus came to Earth to tell us to love one another - and his followers have spent the last 2,000 years killing each other over exactly how he said it."

If we learn from Rwanda's example, we will allow massive fertility, leading to shortages, and we will learn to allow massacres to solve the problem the idiotically large birth rate caused (yes ours is too small, but only a little bit, we certainly cannot survive even small minorities with a birthrate of 5 or higher)


For one, it sounds like you're putting words in Thom's mouth - read his post and it should be clear that those aren't the examples he's suggesting we learn from. And even aside from that, you seem to be oversimplifying the concept of "learning from an example" to mean "follow the example to the letter."

I strongly suggest you read up on the concept of a "negative object lesson." Commonly described as learning from your mistakes, or the mistakes of others.

Reply Parent Score: 2