Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 22nd Apr 2009 11:03 UTC, submitted by Hakime
In the current economic climate, it's hard to make any sane predictions one way or the other. While we receive continuous reports that netbooks are the saving grace of the PC market, the light at the end of the tunnel, the beacon of hope, the Fiona Apple among the rest of the mediocre musician crowd, the, err, (okay I'm out of metaphors), we are now getting a report which states that during the first quarter of 2009, netbooks have not met their sales estimates.
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RE[3]: Limited by feature differentiation
by kaiwai on Thu 23rd Apr 2009 10:58
in reply to "RE[2]: Limited by feature differentiation"
Member since:2005-07-06
If you have a look at my comment again, you'll notice that I was referring to dual-core netbooks. As far as I can tell chipzilla is the culprit limiting this segment.
And again I state for a second time that there are dual core Atom processors available:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Atom_microprocessors
The 300 series is dual core and hyper-threading. Again, it is the vendors and not Intel restricting. There is nothing stopping a vendor from installing a nettop processor in a netbook - it'll use more power - 8W versus 2.5W, but there is nothing stopping them from doing it. Do you have evidence in the form of a contract which limits OEM's? you seem make claims that there are limitations - have you got evidence besides accusations?
Intel are making the processors available and OEM's are choosing not to provide dual core Atom based Netbooks. I'd put money on it that the don't provide netbooks with dual core because it would eat into their traditional (and higher margin) laptop segment.
It is a business decision made by the hardware vendors and nothing to do with the so-called 'chipzilla' that you keep screaming about.
Also what is the deal with the 2GB artificial limit? I have yet to see any reports from OEMs or insiders claiming that there is negligible demand for a netbook with dual-core and support for 4GB RAM.
Again, that is a choice made by the vendor and not Intel. Again, you're looking for someone to blame because you can't find what you want. You'll make up boogiemen if it means that you end up having something you can use as a whipping boy.
Having a monopoly on the netbook market and stalling it from flourishing into many segments is merely limited by their profit margins and conflicting portfolios. There are no technical limits here.
They have no monopoly - VIA is coming into the market, AMD is entering the market - how is it Intel's fault that both vendors are late to the party? Again, you seem to be hell bent on looking for something to hate.
FYI, HP is shipping the dv2 that comes with 4GB RAM. The dv2 is built on AMDs Neo netbook platform. Thus I doubt the OEMs are against this concept.
Again you given an example of a competing platform and yet you aren't able to actually demonstrate why there is such a limitation with the Atom platform - if it is a limitation by design or a choice by the OEM. You've failed to show one causes the other. You've also ignored the fact that the margins on Atom processors are actually very good - so it isn't as though intel is doing something to protect their margins.
Why haven't OEM's gone with the Nvidia chipset then if the Intel one is so limiting? why haven't OEMs gone with VIA or AMD on mass if Atom is so limiting. Again, you're looking for something to hate because you just so happen not to be able to find what you want. This is a forum for technology discussions not a soap box for ranting over your desires not being addressed by the marketplace.
Edited 2009-04-23 11:03 UTC
RE[4]: Limited by feature differentiation
by adkilla on Thu 23rd Apr 2009 14:33
in reply to "RE[3]: Limited by feature differentiation"
Member since:2005-07-07
And again I state for a second time that there are dual core Atom processors available:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Atom_microprocessors
The 300 series is dual core and hyper-threading. Again, it is the vendors and not Intel restricting. There is nothing stopping a vendor from installing a nettop processor in a netbook - it'll use more power - 8W versus 2.5W, but there is nothing stopping them from doing it. Do you have evidence in the form of a contract which limits OEM's? you seem make claims that there are limitations - have you got evidence besides accusations?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Atom_microprocessors
The 300 series is dual core and hyper-threading. Again, it is the vendors and not Intel restricting. There is nothing stopping a vendor from installing a nettop processor in a netbook - it'll use more power - 8W versus 2.5W, but there is nothing stopping them from doing it. Do you have evidence in the form of a contract which limits OEM's? you seem make claims that there are limitations - have you got evidence besides accusations?
Nettop parts consume more power which is why they are not used in netbooks. These parts also produce more heat.
You are welcome to prove me wrong by listing any OEM that are shipping nettop parts in netbooks.
Netbooks would require mobile variants to be successful. Therefore the emphasis on Atom mobile variants with dual-core capability.
Intel are making the processors available and OEM's are choosing not to provide dual core Atom based Netbooks. I'd put money on it that the don't provide netbooks with dual core because it would eat into their traditional (and higher margin) laptop segment.
Please post some facts on this.
It is a business decision made by the hardware vendors and nothing to do with the so-called 'chipzilla' that you keep screaming about.
How does one scream in a comment? Care to share?
OEMs can purchase the Atom without the chipset. However, Intel's pricing strategy makes it uncompetitive to bundle another chipset. You can read about it here:
http://www.tweaktown.com/news/11605/intel_s_atom_can_be_purchased_w...
Again, that is a choice made by the vendor and not Intel.
Again, please post your facts. Also, I would like to know which vendors are making such deliberate choices so that I could avoid their products.
Again, you're looking for someone to blame because you can't find what you want. You'll make up boogiemen if it means that you end up having something you can use as a whipping boy.
I have yet to see your facts to the contrary.
Monopolies are about making as much money as possible while staying in control of the market, even if it means screwing their customers outright. If you think Intel is an exception to this, you might want to read up on their anti-trust lawsuits.
Furthermore, why do you put the blame on OEMs when the facts are to the contrary. Why make the OEMs your whipping boy?
They have no monopoly - VIA is coming into the market, AMD is entering the market - how is it Intel's fault that both vendors are late to the party? Again, you seem to be hell bent on looking for something to hate.
VIA was the first to market. Like AMD, their weakness is their supply and pricing strategy.
I do hope AMD would be able to ship more Neo class processors (especially X2 variants if possible). Beyond being price competitive with Intel, they do have a challenge in maintaing low TDP and heat.
Very few could beat Intel at pricing and supply. That advantage alone has given them a strong monopoly in the market despite many other x86 contenders. If you think Intel isn't a monopoly in the x86 market, you ought to post some facts to back that up. By the way, in case you are not aware at this point, Atom is an x86 product.
Again you given an example of a competing platform and yet you aren't able to actually demonstrate why there is such a limitation with the Atom platform - if it is a limitation by design or a choice by the OEM.
If by platform you mean CPU + chipset, then yes, it is an artificial limitation imposed by Intel on the Atom platform. Read here for the chipset specs yourself:
http://ark.intel.com/ProductCollection.aspx?codeName=24973&code=pou...
As you would notice from the link above the maximum RAM supported is 2GB. This is not an OEM restriction as you have implied. What facts do you have to blame the OEMs?
Why haven't OEM's gone with the Nvidia chipset then if the Intel one is so limiting? why haven't OEMs gone with VIA or AMD on mass if Atom is so limiting. Again, you're looking for something to hate because you just so happen not to be able to find what you want.
Again, if you read my prior statements in this comment. You would come to the realization that Intel has the supply and pricing advantage which neither of them have at the moment. This advantage has given them the monopoly position they currently have.
If it was easy to break any monopoly, then the chipzillas and the microshafts of this world this world would cease to exist.
This is a forum for technology discussions not a soap box for ranting over your desires not being addressed by the marketplace.
My initial comment (before you came along with your reply) was to point out that the lack of sub-segments within the netbook marketplace is impacting its growth. After your reply, I shared my view on how having more RAM capacity and dual-core options would open up opportunities for customers like myself.
I don't recall you being neither the moderator nor the site owner to impose restrictions or limits on my freedom of expression. You are welcome to delete my comments if you think that is your purview.
Thanks,
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Edited 2009-04-23 14:50 UTC
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Member since:
2005-07-07
If you have a look at my comment again, you'll notice that I was referring to dual-core netbooks. As far as I can tell chipzilla is the culprit limiting this segment. Also what is the deal with the 2GB artificial limit? I have yet to see any reports from OEMs or insiders claiming that there is negligible demand for a netbook with dual-core and support for 4GB RAM.
Having a monopoly on the netbook market and stalling it from flourishing into many segments is merely limited by their profit margins and conflicting portfolios. There are no technical limits here.
FYI, HP is shipping the dv2 that comes with 4GB RAM. The dv2 is built on AMDs Neo netbook platform. Thus I doubt the OEMs are against this concept.
I have an iMac and a MacBook - where does a Netbook fit into the equation for me? for many people, their lives are already flooded with computers already; if they've got a computer already they're looking for a replacement and out of that, the screen size for many are too small to make it a viable full time device to be used. Those who don't use computers have had many years and chances as prices have plummeted to purchase one so the issue has nothing to do with price as to why they, as the computerless, haven't bought one yet.
I have a 17" MBP which I use for vision research and offsite client demos. When I am on vacation, I would like to take a light 12" netbook that has good response when I need to multitask. Like when I need to VOIP into a conference and share a presentation at the same time, or when I have to VPN into my home office to download my mails.
Having a netbook that has a beefier CPU and more RAM helps a lot in the above circumstances. I am not alone on this, I have friends that are business owners and part-time workers that are college students that would greatly benefit from this.
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Edited 2009-04-23 08:30 UTC