Linked by Thom Holwerda on Wed 20th May 2009 13:27 UTC
Hot on the heels of the Russians, we have another clone maker popping up, this time in fish & chips country: Freedom PC. "Powerful and versatile, environmentally friendly yet inexpensive computer systems compatible with any and all of the main operating systems: Mac OS X, Linux or Windows. So YOU can decide which one to use for what YOU want to do. And we give you a choice of models, too - from the low priced and good looking office machine, the ideal choice for business, to the high powered, sleek, gaming media centre. All, with the operating system of your choice pre-installed - or none at all - at prices accessible to all." They offer various models pre-installed with Windows, Linux, or Mac OS X.
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RE[7]: What's the point of cloning a Mac?
by fsck on Thu 21st May 2009 17:26
in reply to "RE[6]: What's the point of cloning a Mac?"
Member since:2005-07-06
Ah, if only it were that simple. Some apps come as self-contained bundles, and installing them is as easy as you describe. However, on first run, many of them install additional system files, services, and other components, and those do not get removed when you delete the app, neither do the configuration files in your user folder although those aren't usually a problem. Everything has to be removed manually, as Apple provides absolutely no uninstall facilities in OS X. Yes, you read that right, none whatsoever.
These are bad enough... but worse, some larger apps are distributed as pkg files. These are installers very similar to Windows installers, and yes they put a lot of files in various places. If you're lucky, the app will come with its own uninstaller... if you're very lucky, the uninstaller will be written correctly and remove everything the pkg installed. If not, you're absolutely on your own, as Apple provides no way to uninstall pkgs or even track which files have been installed and where by which pkgs.
Over time, this makes Mac OS X slow down a great deal. In my experience it takes longer to happen than it does in WinXP or Vista, but it does happen nevertheless... and cleaning out an OS X system can be a nightmare once it gets to that state.
Heh. I'm not and have never been a Mac user so I made sure to preface with "afaik". The package management systems (and repository systems) may have their faults.....but when they work well - they work very well. Makes me glad to be a Linux user. I find it a bit strange Apple would lack any uninstall facility for pkg files, doesn't seem to be aligned with their "make everything intuitive" ethos.
RE[8]: What's the point of cloning a Mac?
by darknexus on Thu 21st May 2009 19:18
in reply to "RE[7]: What's the point of cloning a Mac?"
Member since:2008-07-15
Well, Apple means the UI when they say everything's intuitive. Sometimes they don't make the underlying system as intuitive as it should or could be. As long as you're within the bounds of what Apple has considered an average user is going to do, you're fine. Step outside those boundaries, even just a little, and things can get rather complicated. Apparently they figured an average user would just drag the app to the trash and not realize they didn't really get rid of all of it... and typically that's true, and then they wonder why their systems have slowed to a crawl. It provides the illusion of simplicity.
RE[7]: What's the point of cloning a Mac?
by DavidSan on Thu 21st May 2009 23:55
in reply to "RE[6]: What's the point of cloning a Mac?"
Member since:2008-11-18
With mac as far as I know you literally just drop a self contained program in a folder onto your drive with all dependences. so presumably when you remove it it leaves nothing behind either.
Ah, if only it were that simple. Some apps come as self-contained bundles, and installing them is as easy as you describe. However, on first run, many of them install additional system files, services, and other components, and those do not get removed when you delete the app, neither do the configuration files in your user folder although those aren't usually a problem. Everything has to be removed manually, as Apple provides absolutely no uninstall facilities in OS X. Yes, you read that right, none whatsoever.
These are bad enough... but worse, some larger apps are distributed as pkg files. These are installers very similar to Windows installers, and yes they put a lot of files in various places. If you're lucky, the app will come with its own uninstaller... if you're very lucky, the uninstaller will be written correctly and remove everything the pkg installed. If not, you're absolutely on your own, as Apple provides no way to uninstall pkgs or even track which files have been installed and where by which pkgs.
Over time, this makes Mac OS X slow down a great deal. In my experience it takes longer to happen than it does in WinXP or Vista, but it does happen nevertheless... and cleaning out an OS X system can be a nightmare once it gets to that state.
Ah, if only it were that simple. Some apps come as self-contained bundles, and installing them is as easy as you describe. However, on first run, many of them install additional system files, services, and other components, and those do not get removed when you delete the app, neither do the configuration files in your user folder although those aren't usually a problem. Everything has to be removed manually, as Apple provides absolutely no uninstall facilities in OS X. Yes, you read that right, none whatsoever.
These are bad enough... but worse, some larger apps are distributed as pkg files. These are installers very similar to Windows installers, and yes they put a lot of files in various places. If you're lucky, the app will come with its own uninstaller... if you're very lucky, the uninstaller will be written correctly and remove everything the pkg installed. If not, you're absolutely on your own, as Apple provides no way to uninstall pkgs or even track which files have been installed and where by which pkgs.
Over time, this makes Mac OS X slow down a great deal. In my experience it takes longer to happen than it does in WinXP or Vista, but it does happen nevertheless... and cleaning out an OS X system can be a nightmare once it gets to that state.
Well, it is true Mac OS X cannot provide uninstaller for all kind of apps. It is not very common for Mac applications to start installing things on first run, especially extensions and services. But it is not the point, those apps exist. Microsoft Office is one of them, for example.
With pkg there are mixed feelings. Originally pkg were provided just to be installers of system updates or Applications ported from UNIX and developer should write uninstallers. But most don't. Nevertheless if you run the installer again and you go the menu File and hit the Show files item... You can see what it installed where and how. You might see though, that many places are hidden files and places very UNIX like. Then you have to remove it by hand and terminal.
Apple expects, or hopes people update all the Apps to work as Apple intend, but it is very difficult. Especially with multi-platform applications, because obvious reasons.
However, the slowdown in Macintosh might not be related to that. I have seen, for example, that after security patches the system tends to get slower... I do not know, but it seems the team that makes the first release it is not the same team that updates the systems, so maybe they are screwing things around without knowing it.
Also, I have seen Mac OS X relies a lot on having a hard disc empty. I mean, having a hard disc with more than 60% filled is terrible. It might be that the file system is not as good as others out there, or the defragmentation on the fly technique does not have space to work.
Sometimes, the best way to use Mac OS X is just like any other UNIX, I mean, just create a new account and see if the the thing is related to it and don't use administrator rights on the accounts.
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Member since:
2008-07-15
Ah, if only it were that simple. Some apps come as self-contained bundles, and installing them is as easy as you describe. However, on first run, many of them install additional system files, services, and other components, and those do not get removed when you delete the app, neither do the configuration files in your user folder although those aren't usually a problem. Everything has to be removed manually, as Apple provides absolutely no uninstall facilities in OS X. Yes, you read that right, none whatsoever.
These are bad enough... but worse, some larger apps are distributed as pkg files. These are installers very similar to Windows installers, and yes they put a lot of files in various places. If you're lucky, the app will come with its own uninstaller... if you're very lucky, the uninstaller will be written correctly and remove everything the pkg installed. If not, you're absolutely on your own, as Apple provides no way to uninstall pkgs or even track which files have been installed and where by which pkgs.
Over time, this makes Mac OS X slow down a great deal. In my experience it takes longer to happen than it does in WinXP or Vista, but it does happen nevertheless... and cleaning out an OS X system can be a nightmare once it gets to that state.