Linked by Kroc Camen on Thu 4th Jun 2009 22:34 UTC
Opera Software Opera have announced the release of Opera 10 beta. New engine, new features, but I'm more concerned about where Opera 10 fits into Opera's history, and certainly their future. Opera have never made any massive strides in marketshare and is Opera 10 really going to change any of that? Read More to find out.
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Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Fri 5th Jun 2009 08:35 UTC
Member since:

BTW, everyone, if you hated the article, then write your own review! A better one! OSNews is _very_ prepared to publish content from the readers. We are always looking for differing opinions from across the community. My article was my opinion. If you want better articles up there, then contribute and it will happen!

OSnews is not unbiased and perfect. It’s completely independent, with the content written by a group of bloggers who all have their own take on the landscape. We _don’t_ want to regurgitate other peoeple’s RSS feeds. If you don’t like my writings, then contribute articles so that I don’t have to do any writing! ;)

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by Kroc
by waynej on Fri 5th Jun 2009 09:22 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
waynej Member since:

Your article was your opinion - I totally support your right both to have and voice your opinion.

As the saying goes "I may not like what you say but I'll defend your right to say it".

I don't think many people have a problem with the fact you have an opinion. I think the problem was with the emphasis - style over substance. Form over functionality.

E.g. I'm an Opera user (surprise surprise), as I write this I'm using 10 beta and I've tiled the display with your review in the left half and this comment in the right - a fantastic piece of functionality that comes as standard. Would I trade this for a "better" GUI or icon... no chance. A victory for function over form.

And that was the main issue with the review - function was relegated in favour of form.

I don't think any of us have a problem with you - never met you to have a problem. And I agree that maybe more of us need to contribute if possible.

Don't take it personally. You actually posted an article and it takes a bit of courage to put oneself up to be knocked down. Kudos for that.

Edited 2009-06-05 09:27 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: Comment by Kroc
by Gadget on Fri 5th Jun 2009 14:38 in reply to "Comment by Kroc"
Gadget Member since:

kroc, I think you are taking some hits on your reviews of Opera 10. I saw the headline on the front page on Wednesday and read your addendum:

As an apology to the community for the reckless and inadequate review I will be doing it again, properly, taking into consideration your fine comments.

Thus, I decided to wait for your followup, thinking there was no actual review at that point. Today, I read your second review and felt you pretty much had your mind made up at your first glance at the UI. After reading through the comments on this review I went back to the Wednesday entry and found you actually did post a review on Wednesday. I read through it and found it pretty much like the one you posted on Thursday. I didn't see where you went deeper or were more balanced in your approach. You just seemed to harp more on the UI. Therefore, I would have to say the hits you are taking are pretty much deserved.

I admit Opera is an aquired taste, at least in my opinion. I've been using it since the late nineties when Netscape ran aground and I couldn't bear to use IE. I had tried Opera before, but couldn't bring myself to break up with Netscape. When I could no longer stomach Netscape and purposed to give Opera a month, I never looked back.

As I began to delve the layers of functionality that comprise Opera, I realized that Opera, at its core is built to browse the way you want to. There are so many ways to change its appearance, rearrange the UI components, or how to do something that it is very bewildering to many. You said, "A browser should be transparent, a thin veneer between me and the web page. Not a clown honking his horn in my face." If I want a browser with a clown honking his horn in my face, Bill Gates has accomodated me! Sorry, couldn't resist. Who are you to declare what a browser should be? That's would be like me saying, "All bicycles should be a traditional, single speed with pedal brakes. There should be no hand brakes, gear changers, flashy lights, water bottles, bike computers or handlebar streamers. A bicycle should be a thin transparent veneer between me and the road." Liberty is a great thing, even for personal browser tastes.

Perhaps Opera's plethora of customizations, are a turnoff to many. Furthermore, that lack of extensibility is an abomination to FF users. And I can see where the default UI might be abhorrent to Mac snobs, not that I'm call you a Mac snob, but you did choose to obsess about how the UI did not look just like every other Mac app. Seems to me, before Macs became so cool many Mac users took pride on being different and not following the PC herd. But they can't take an app that doesn't look like all the others.

However, I would like to postulate that if you will dedicate yourself to customize Opera to a point that it suits you and then give it a fair shake and use it for an extended period of time, from that point on you will have a much different view of it. You still may choose to use something else, but I bet you will appreciate it for what it is and the elegance at which it delivers so much functionality is so small a package.

Edited 2009-06-05 14:39 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by Kroc
by Kroc on Fri 5th Jun 2009 14:59 in reply to "RE: Comment by Kroc"
Kroc Member since:

It’s already clear that I can’t win, whatever I do; the community is however right. In all fairness I should be far more fair. I don’t give any software a free ride—you will never see a positive review from me unless that software convinces me to switch to it permanently on the basis of few day’s use (Such software does exist, Firefox 0.93 convinced me to switch from IE almost instantly).

The layout of buttons is not a problem, I don’t need to customise them. The default skin is simply a barrier to me using the app regularly, and even beyond the toolbar, the dialogues are badly designed, and I can’t rearrange them.

I looked at Opera hard and I gave my reason for not liking it. That’s a valid reason. Just because other people would rather I chose a different 'valid' reason because they don’t agree with the reason I chose, it doesn’t make my choice invalid.

People either want me to love Opera, or dislike it on a basis that they can agree upon. I can’t win with that. The default out-of-the-box design on Firefox is simply better than Opera’s and nobody seems willing to accept that. it *must* be about functionality instead of looks or somehow it’s not a valid complaint. Looks matter. A lot. If looks didn’t matter then companies simply wouldn’t even bother wasting their time spending the money they do on ads.

Opera’s history of Netscape-like skins is no longer good enough I think. That’s what the article was about.

Reply Parent Score: 1