Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 11th Jun 2009 10:15 UTC, submitted by poundsmack
KDE The second beta for KDE 4.3 has been released. The highlights of this release are the integration of many new technologies, such as PolicyKit and Geolocation services, new window animation effects, a more usable run command popup, many new and improved addons in Plasma, Many bugfixes and improvements across all applications, and more integration of features coming with the KDE 4 platform.
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RE: I love KDE
by adundovi on Thu 11th Jun 2009 20:13 UTC in reply to "I love KDE"
adundovi
Member since:
2009-02-13

I don't get it? You _can_ use Opera on KDE4 without any problem, but it will never be part of KDE couse it's closed source.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[2]: I love KDE
by kaiwai on Thu 11th Jun 2009 23:29 in reply to "RE: I love KDE"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

I don't get it? You _can_ use Opera on KDE4 without any problem, but it will never be part of KDE couse it's closed source.


I think what he means is the Qt4 version of Opera. I like konqueror but given they refuse to drop khtml in favour of webkit, I'll be sticking with GNOME. The whole khtml versus webkit is a prime example of where politics are taking precedence over adopting something that would improve the end user experience.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: I love KDE
by FishB8 on Fri 12th Jun 2009 04:51 in reply to "RE[2]: I love KDE"
FishB8 Member since:
2006-01-16

This has nothing to do with politics. It has to do with the fact that the API was locked down when 4.0 was released. Replacing khtml with webkit would cause break that.

Furthermore they are trying to integrate as much as they can from webkit into khtml, but only as long as they can do it without breaking the API.

Perhaps they will consider bundling webkit alongside khtml and then slowly depreciating khtml so that it's still there for backwards compatibility, but also make webkit available.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: I love KDE
by setec_astronomy on Fri 12th Jun 2009 05:56 in reply to "RE[2]: I love KDE"
setec_astronomy Member since:
2007-11-17

I think what he means is the Qt4 version of Opera. I like konqueror but given they refuse to drop khtml in favour of webkit, I'll be sticking with GNOME. The whole khtml versus webkit is a prime example of where politics are taking precedence over adopting something that would improve the end user experience.


As far as I know, these are the facts:

i.) The KDE devs can not drop the khtml kpart entirely during the KDE4 cycle due to their commitment to binary stability and compability and the fact that the webkit integration in Qt4 seems to have been not ready for primetime at the time KDE 4.0 was released.

ii.) The webkit kpart is actively developed and can be used as off now instead of the khtml kpart (In konqueror View -> View Mode -> Webkit if it is installed). I'm not aware of any distro defaulting to the webkit backend or even providing it out of the box (although it is in kdemod-playground for arch linux users), maybe because the last time I tried it several months ago it offered little advantages above khtml (including gmail + modified UA string for kthml) and seemed to be a little bit less stable than the default one. Of course, ymmv. Note that besides those places where the kpart is used, the default is - afaik - to use the WebKit integration in Qt (for example in plasma).

iii.) KHTML is also actively developed (in fact, khtml pretty much has the lead wrt quantity of bugfixes in the changelogs for the 4.2.x series). The debate whether khtml should be "actively" depreciated or not is - again, afaict - not decided yet, but I would guess that as long as the (compareably small) team of khtml developers actively develops it and because of i.), khtml will remain a part of KDE at least for the whole KDE 4 family of releases.

iv.) The need for a dedicated webkit browser will hopefully be addressed by rekonq (or whatever its future name will be) in the soon future (I'm typing this from rekonq which I try to use for all my browsing where zotero is not needed) which is now a bona fide KDE application. It's currently at version 0.1 and has more rough edges than polished ones, but it works most of the times and - thanks to the quality of the WebKit integration in Qt - seems to be picking up quite some steam recently. For those who prefer a pure Qt project without KDE dependencies, arora does a good job and seems to be atm a little bit more mature than rekonq.

Please note that I don't want to point any fingers, since there are a lot of reasons why people prefer GNOME over KDE (and vice versa, whatever floats your boat, etc.). But KDE's inability to depreciate the khtml kpart and/or scrap konqueror strikes me as an odd criteria, since - and please correct me if I'm wrong - GNOME has no unified way to incorporate HTML content into it's desktop either, at least this is the impression one gets from reading

http://blogs.gnome.org/otte/2009/03/03/browsing-in-gnome/

which dates back only three months and most users I know tend to think of Firefox as the default browser for GNOME, probably because most distros don't advertise epiphany (with which I have a hate-hate-love relationship, but that is for another post). Sure, epiphany with webkit is more mature than the compareable stand-alone projects on the KDE side of the fence, but as of version 2.26.1 here on arch linux, it still seems to default to the gecko engine while (for example) midori is subjectivly in a comparable state to arora.

Side remark:
Besides the fact that the decision to promise (and adhere to that promise) binary compability throughout a major relase is a political decision, I fail to see anything else that is beyond the typical "developers are free to work on whatever they like to work as long as you don't pay their wages" problem/feature, that is inherent to all FOSS development. You may argue that KDE should probably have had alternatives to konqueror like rekonq higher and earlier on their agenda (and I would agree to that), but I'm not sure if it would have been wise to drop a (compared to the state of affairs in KDE3) working default kpart, most likely resulting in additional feature regressions and instabilities, while the whole DE underwent a massive restructuring with well documented growing pains and regressions galore. Also, I would not rule out that the ongoing debates around dolphin/konqueror and the "omg they killed konqi" complaints from loyal konqi users played a role in the decision to at least keep konqueror as the default web browser. Remember: One mans gold is another mans prehistoric relict from the past which should be scraped in favour of something different, immediatly.

Reply Parent Score: 4