Linked by Thom Holwerda on Fri 12th Jun 2009 13:55 UTC
Internet Explorer Yesterday, Microsoft dropped a bomb by announcing that all versions of Windows 7 released in Europe would ship without Internet Explorer pre-installed. This was in answer to the EU antitrust investigation currently under way regarding possible illegal bundling of Internet Explorer with Windows. The first reactions to this news are coming in, with Opera and the EU both lamenting the move.
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What does this tell us?
by sbergman27 on Fri 12th Jun 2009 16:26 UTC
sbergman27
Member since:
2005-07-24

Firefox' popularity is through the roof, with the Free/free browser from Mozilla touching the 40% market share figures in many European countries. In addition, Chrome has become quite popular in a short period of time, more popular than Opera, in fact (of course, usual warnings for statistics, etc. etc.). What does this tell us?

This tells us that Thom Holwerda does not do professional support on business desktops. I do. And I can tell you that the problems of IEs inertia, and business critical services requiring IE to function, is still very, very real. Quoting "up to 40% firefox usage for some countries in the EU" to tech support for these providers does me exactly no good. And this is business, so please don't tell me to tell my clients to just refuse to file their warranty claims with the manufacturer so that they can be paid for the warranty service work they do. I still am forced to run IE on Linux to allow my customers to conduct their business.

When one sits around in his armchair looking over w3schools statistics and writing ivory tower OSNews editorials, it's easy to miss actual reality.

It's too late to simply level the playing field because the entire planet's center of gravity is now skewed.

I will say that while I agree with going beyond just not having IE installed by default... it is not enough to be concerned only with home users. Something needs to be done about IE's monopoly position in business services.

Microsoft cares what browser your grandma uses only for the network effect it affords. It cares a hell of a lot *more* about businesses being forced to use it.

Edited 2009-06-12 16:44 UTC

Reply Score: 1

RE: What does this tell us?
by Thom_Holwerda on Fri 12th Jun 2009 16:47 in reply to "What does this tell us?"
Thom_Holwerda Member since:
2005-06-29

When one sits around in his armchair looking over w3schools statistics and writing ivory tower OSNews editorials, it's easy to miss actual reality.


Your post conveniently ignores two key points.

1) Web statistics are obviously quite unreliable (and I'm not using w3c, but NetApps) - but you imply that they only cover home usage - which is nonsense, since they cover company usage just as much. Obviously, this only goes for external usage, and not internal usage - but it's not that odd to assume that employees use the same browsers externally as well as internally.

2) Your post makes a very grand assumption: namely, that companies want to change. This is of course very debatable, as companies are notoriously slow when it comes to change or adoption of new technologies, mostly because change == money. I'm pretty sure that even without IE's stranglehold, they still wouldn't change browsers, because change == money.

You claim I'm sitting in an ivory tower, but if there's one person here coming across as overly arrogant and condescending, it's you.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: What does this tell us?
by sbergman27 on Fri 12th Jun 2009 17:14 in reply to "RE: What does this tell us?"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

1) Web statistics are obviously quite unreliable (and I'm not using w3c, but NetApps) - but you imply that they only cover home usage - which is nonsense,

I made no such claim. My claim is that you put too much credence into them. This point goes well beyond questions regarding the accuracy of the numbers. It extends to just what this sort of data is able to tell us at all. While business usage of public sites is no doubt covered... what do these statistics say about what happens after the employee logs into their warranty service provider account over at http://www.warrantycentral.net and starts trying to file warranty claims? Absolutely nothing. Have you even thought about that?

2) Your post makes a very grand assumption: namely, that companies want to change. This is of course very debatable, as companies are notoriously slow when it comes to change or adoption of new technologies,

My claim makes no such assumptions. The inertia of the companies providing the service started out as a symptom of the IE-domination problem, but has now become a very real and integral part of the total problem. But first things first. We need to address the root cause, i.e. IE-by-default, before any permanent fix at the level of the service provider is going to have a chance of happening, and more importantly, of sticking.

You are making it ever more apparent that you are not actually one of us folks in the trenches fighting and reporting on this battle. In fact, it seems that you want to deny that there *is* still a battle at all, because Chrome (mostly) works OK for you on your home desktop.

Edit: BTW, OSNews.com's textarea widget for editing a post is only 2 lines high on my webkit based browser. So I suppose I am posting on a site which is, itself, a part of the problem.

Edited 2009-06-12 17:20 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I agree but it also depends on the business. In a previous position, the business is limited by many webapps that break unless you use IE6. A freaking enterprise class organization and they're crippled by IE6. No IE7. IE8; forget about it.

On the other hand, one of the first changes at a business after that was installing Firefox thanks to click happy users and IE7 being left wide open for a few weeks. The .net vulnerability injection has reduced that solutions effectiveness though.

Reply Parent Score: 2

sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

I agree but it also depends on the business. In a previous position, the business is limited by many webapps that break unless you use IE6. A freaking enterprise class organization and they're crippled by IE6. No IE7. IE8; forget about it.

Agreed that this likely varies from business area to business area. Since my customers run Linux desktops, the IE6 fetish you describe actually ameliorates my situation, at least by a bit. I rely upon Crossover Office for the IE sessions. And while IE6 is a supported app, IE7 and later are not.

Of course, as an admin with a conscience, setting this up for my users is actually contributing to the problem. But what choice do I really have?

Edited 2009-06-12 21:33 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: What does this tell us?
by l3v1 on Sat 13th Jun 2009 06:43 in reply to "What does this tell us?"
l3v1 Member since:
2005-07-06

Quoting "up to 40% firefox usage for some countries in the EU" to tech support for these providers does me exactly no good.


Well, it won't do you any good if you don't listen, that's for sure. Simple dismiss and denial won't grow your businness (well, there's always room for exceptions...).

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: What does this tell us?
by sbergman27 on Sat 13th Jun 2009 12:51 in reply to "RE: What does this tell us?"
sbergman27 Member since:
2005-07-24

Please elaborate.

Reply Parent Score: 2