Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 27th Sep 2005 10:36 UTC
KDE "As the dust settles from aKademy 2005, the annual KDE conference, it's a good time to take a look at what the KDE developers are working on. Though KDE 3.5 isn't even out yet, developers are already working on KDE 4. Plenty of work has already gone into porting existing code to Qt4, the GUI toolkit upon which KDE is based, and KDE developers are working on projects that could radically change how [KDE] works."
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yes!
by molnarcs on Tue 27th Sep 2005 12:05 UTC
molnarcs
Member since:
2005-09-10

I love these guys (and girls) - I think KDE is one of the best organized open source projects. They have excellent toolkits and a very open minded community - I never saw so many WOW! this is soo cool! kinda statemts in other developer blogs. If you read <a href="http://www.planetkde.org/"planetkde, you'll see what I mean: it is clear that kde developers enjoy working with qt tremendously.

[rant]I don't know about GNOME - they appear to me more "elitist" with their HIG and whatnot. Not respecting user opinions like in the case of spatial nautilus for instance. In 9 out of 10 reviews the reviewer begins by turning that off - and still, they are at it. I'm a gimp user, and I love it, but it was a shock when I discovered that I cannot copy & paste a path into their open file dialog. If I have a dir full of pictures, I like to browse it in a file manager (so I can see all the thumbnails), then one click to select the path, another click to paste it, and then select the specific files. I tried to edit an icon, and it took 9 clicks just to open the damn file! What the hell were they thinking when they designed that dialog?[/rant]

I don't see GNOME having a bright future - not because it their way is not a good way. It is not my way - but lately I see more and more politics instead of bright new ideas. See for instance http://osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=11995">this - half of it is about bashing the other DE, instead of focusing on their own stuff. You won't see that from KDE developers (I'm a long time reader of the dot and kdeplanet) - they're focusing on their stuff, and they do it in a more future oriented way. Making code modular, more maintainable, more approachable to new developers. They do trainings, conferences, they consult users/artists and make code in progress approachable (klik) to usability people/artists. In other words, they focus on the whole picture: infrastructure (toolkit), communication (users/artists/usability folks), code development - everything. I don't see that on the part of GNOME.

Reply Score: 5

RE: yes!
by on Tue 27th Sep 2005 12:38 in reply to "yes!"
Member since:

And there the troll came in ;)

Congrats, molnarcs :p

Gnome isn't elitist. It is however based on different ideas. Gnome is my favourite because it goes the same OO-way as OS/2 WPS did. But other people like KDE, which is quite fine. KDE has a nice IDE... really nice (actually it's better than sex.. well, almost). The Gnome HIG is not something you're forced to use, but it is actually a very good idea. Always make applications as easy to control and use, without sacrificing power. And the HIG does a good job on that account.

Many KDE apps has a behaviour close or similar to that suggested of Gnome HIG.

There is obviously a lot you don't see about Gnome, but that's okay. There is a lot of good stuff to look at in KDE. But don't get me wrong. Gnome will be around even in 10 years from now (and so will KDE).

dylansmrjones
kristian AT herkild DOT dk

BTW: Don't go try to start a flamewar again. Be nice ;)

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: yes!
by molnarcs on Tue 27th Sep 2005 13:52 in reply to "RE: yes!"
molnarcs Member since:
2005-09-10

You are pretty quick to label me a troll. I know that comparison between the to major DEs is a touchy issue, but that is not my fault. I raised specific issues about the way developers disregard user opinions... I realize this is a good way to start a flamewar, but that is not my intention. I'm just curious about the justification behind dropping support for copy and paste in a file dialog - why does that help any user? The ability to imput path in a box was considered confusing? And I see a number of decisions that are unexplained and make both the casual user of GNOME apps (which I consider myself) and regulars bewildered.

Anyhow, I don't really care one way or another. Maybe GNOME will be here in 10 years. I don't see that very likely, not in its current form and with its current management. That does not mean that there won't be something taking up the best traditions (if you like those traditions - I don't) of GNOME ... in fact, there is one already: xfce. Now they only need a good filemanager, something like rox, but with sane shortcuts (no CTRL-X for deleting, which flies in the face of an important HIG premise: don't frustrate your users!).

Yeah, there is obviously a lot of things I don't see about GNOME - the logic behind some of their decisions is one among them: spatial, button order, 7 clicks to open a damn file. Yes, I talk about these. This can be interpreted as a flamebait. But then, some of their developers don't seem to have an issue making broad generalizing statements about the rival DE (and contrary to my position, they have a vested interest, which imho makes their case worse) - see the interview I linked to above.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE: yes!
by Rehdon on Tue 27th Sep 2005 12:55 in reply to "yes!"
Rehdon Member since:
2005-07-06

See for instance this interview - half of it is about bashing the other DE, instead of focusing on their own stuff.

While the fact that you're trying to start a flame-war in a thread devoted to comment a KDE piece of news should be just fine, eh?

I'm very glad that "you won't see that from KDE developers" (to which I subscribe 100%), because some KDE users still don't seem to like a constructive free software environment. I'll stop at that.

rehdon

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[2]: yes!
by molnarcs on Tue 27th Sep 2005 14:02 in reply to "RE: yes!"
molnarcs Member since:
2005-09-10

Ok, you have a point - and I'm sorry if I offended someone...

I'm just tired of this ... I mean, there are certain topics where you can't say certain things without starting a flamewar (whether it is your intention or not). I think that one of the main characteristics of a troll or a flamebait post is that it makes broad generalizing statements without giving any specific details. I don't think I fall into that category, but I'll shut up (maybe I should have shut up in the first place) if this is such a touchy topic.

As to being offtopic - well, to a certain extent I am. We are talking about the future of one desktop: KDE. Mentioning another one, just to see the different trends, directions, etc that various *nix desktop takes is not a problem (should not be a problem) imho. And that is what I did. I think we can talk about a lot of things in conjunction with this article. Even GNOME, or the future of DE technologies in general. Or Enlightenment - which is quite different from KDE, but they have already shipped exciting new technologies, and at the very least you can't say that they are not visionaries. One cannot help but be excited about the future possibilities of e17. I can't say the same thing about GNOME - I find nothing exciting about its future, I don't see its own developers excited about its future - which is the biggest problem I think.

Anyway, I'll stop here before I cause any more trouble.

Reply Parent Score: 1