Linked by Thom Holwerda on Tue 27th Sep 2005 10:36 UTC
KDE "As the dust settles from aKademy 2005, the annual KDE conference, it's a good time to take a look at what the KDE developers are working on. Though KDE 3.5 isn't even out yet, developers are already working on KDE 4. Plenty of work has already gone into porting existing code to Qt4, the GUI toolkit upon which KDE is based, and KDE developers are working on projects that could radically change how [KDE] works."
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RE[2]: yes!
by molnarcs on Tue 27th Sep 2005 13:52 UTC in reply to "RE: yes!"
molnarcs
Member since:
2005-09-10

You are pretty quick to label me a troll. I know that comparison between the to major DEs is a touchy issue, but that is not my fault. I raised specific issues about the way developers disregard user opinions... I realize this is a good way to start a flamewar, but that is not my intention. I'm just curious about the justification behind dropping support for copy and paste in a file dialog - why does that help any user? The ability to imput path in a box was considered confusing? And I see a number of decisions that are unexplained and make both the casual user of GNOME apps (which I consider myself) and regulars bewildered.

Anyhow, I don't really care one way or another. Maybe GNOME will be here in 10 years. I don't see that very likely, not in its current form and with its current management. That does not mean that there won't be something taking up the best traditions (if you like those traditions - I don't) of GNOME ... in fact, there is one already: xfce. Now they only need a good filemanager, something like rox, but with sane shortcuts (no CTRL-X for deleting, which flies in the face of an important HIG premise: don't frustrate your users!).

Yeah, there is obviously a lot of things I don't see about GNOME - the logic behind some of their decisions is one among them: spatial, button order, 7 clicks to open a damn file. Yes, I talk about these. This can be interpreted as a flamebait. But then, some of their developers don't seem to have an issue making broad generalizing statements about the rival DE (and contrary to my position, they have a vested interest, which imho makes their case worse) - see the interview I linked to above.

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: yes!
by Lazarus on Tue 27th Sep 2005 14:10 in reply to "RE[2]: yes!"
Lazarus Member since:
2005-08-10

I was playing around with Gnome the other day on FreeBSD 5.4 and I noticed that just like every other release of Gnome I've used over the years, prints an ungodly number of warnings and error messages to the first virtual terminal. I'm not a Gnome expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I am curious as to the seriousness of alot of them. I've historically had odd crashes with Gnome (yeah in KDE as well, but nowhere near as many) and I can't help but get the impression that quality control in that project (Gnome) is lacking.

I like the look of Gnome, I like the simplicity, I despise spatial and it's *always* the first thing to go. But KDE just seems more stable to me, and *way* more integrated. My only gripes with KDE are poor printing support (not that I print much anymore, but hey, others do), and the fact that there are several different programs included in the default KDE distribution that do the same things. Kinda bloated IMO.

I guess I'd best be served sticking with Macs, if not for the desire to go with a pure OSS solution when needs don't dictate otherwise.

Meh. All software sucks :-(

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[4]: yes!
by molnarcs on Tue 27th Sep 2005 14:17 in reply to "RE[3]: yes!"
molnarcs Member since:
2005-09-10

I noticed a tendency at kde@freebsd to split up various kde ports into smaller chunks - if you are careful with the order of installation (or install kde-light metaport) - you can select what you want to be included. The system is not perfect, but at least I can have juk - from kdemultimedia-juk port - without the horror that is noatun and friends. Also, use ermixer if you want to have a mixer (I installed the entire kdemultimedia port just to have a freaking mixer!).

Which reminds me: packaging kde is up to the distributors. The KDE project offers their own "default" packages, but a distributor can do whatever it wants with those packages - including rearranging them. So bug your $Distro_maker if you're not satisfied with the defaults.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[3]: yes!
by froussel on Tue 27th Sep 2005 16:16 in reply to "RE[2]: yes!"
froussel Member since:
2005-08-26

Well, your post could be considered trolling because it brings up the same old points with the same old argument ("I don't like it").

For what it's worth: in the file open dialog and nautilus, pressing CTL-l should bring up the "open location" where you can copy-paste, or just type with tab-completion working. It's not obvious, but it's there.

The fact you don't like the button order doesn't mean it's wrong. The fact that I do like it (and the verb labeling that goes with it) doesn't make it's good either. Now, if the majority of gnome users didn't like it, it would actually show that something is wrong but I doubt that's the case. For the actual explanation of the button order, it's essentially just saying the default button should always be in the bottom right for consistency and the idea was actually taken from the mac.

The spatial mode doesn't have to be the default and ubuntu breezy makes browser mode the default. So this specific issue would actually be more a distribution one. In gnome 2.12, improvements to both the spatial and browse mode have been done, showing that no one is left behind:
http://www.gnome.org/~davyd/gnome-2-12/

f!

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[4]: yes!
by molnarcs on Tue 27th Sep 2005 17:26 in reply to "RE[3]: yes!"
molnarcs Member since:
2005-09-10

Well, button order was not one of the major arguments I made. Also, I've been offline for quite some time - I'm not up to speed about recent trends in flame-inciting topics (though I admit that based on my past experiences, I should have known).

Tried CTRL-L - it works! Thanks!

I'm glad to hear that they try to accomodate all users - it was my _impression_ (and I might have been wrong) that they tried to push ideas without properly researching the need of the users - Ubuntu, perhaps the most popular linux distro these days just proves that point.

Anyway, I wish them good luck! It is in _my_ best interest (not only GNOME fans) for GNOME to succeed - after all, I think KDE was influenced in a positive way by some of the ideas coming from the GNOME project. A just have some concerns right now about the developer community (and I haven't even mentioned the eugenia vs. gnome devs. fiasco). It is my belief that what makes a project future proof is maintainability of the codebase, which goes hand in hand with clarity, documentation, low barrier for new programmers, etc - and in this respect ... well, I'm not sure about GNOME to put it mildly.

Also, I saw more and more people using GNOME talking about xfce as the future of GNOME (even though I know it is a separate development group). And since I like trying out new things, I installed it (though I haven't started it too many times) - and I liked what I saw. I can recognize something that others might find very usable yet is not suitable for my own requirements - xfce is like that. So, what is GNOME offering that xfce is not?

Reply Parent Score: 1

RE[3]: yes!
by on Tue 27th Sep 2005 16:38 in reply to "RE[2]: yes!"
Member since:

You can change the shortcuts in ROX fairly easily. You do have to edit a config file once, if you go into the options menu in ROX select "Menus" and then "Set keyboard shortcuts" it will tell you what change you have to make, and then you can just go to the menu item and press the key you want to associate with it. However XFCE will have a new filemanger (Thunar) in the next release.

Reply Parent Score: 0

RE[4]: yes!
by molnarcs on Tue 27th Sep 2005 17:34 in reply to "RE[3]: yes!"
molnarcs Member since:
2005-09-10

cool! thanks - I thought about it, but use it relatively rarely (rox on top of fluxbox actually - as a lightweight alternate solution to KDE).

Reply Parent Score: 1