Linked by Hakime on Tue 14th Jul 2009 20:39 UTC
Internet & Networking It is not a secret that Apple is showing resistance to supporting Adobe's flash on the iPhone and that their efforts to add new features to HTML/CSS is driven towards reducing their dependence on Flash. Going further in that direction, the new hardware accelerated 3D CSS visual effects proposed for standards inclusion will be supported in Snow Leopard's Safari (it is already available in the latest Webkit nighty builds). An new impressive demo of the technology is available at Charles Ying blog.
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Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Wed 15th Jul 2009 04:30 UTC
kaiwai
Member since:
2005-07-06

This is great news; one should expect for a complete solution to come all at once to replace Flash. What one will see is a gradual chipping away at the reason for Flash with developers gradually realising that the reason for its existence becomes less and less a reason to continue using it.

Couple that with the fact that all this development can and will be done without the need to using expensive proprietary development tools as with the case of Flash (the developer tools, especially video compression etc) which is welded to two platforms thus cementing a duo-poly.

Reply Score: 2

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by alexandru_lz on Wed 15th Jul 2009 11:43 in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
alexandru_lz Member since:
2007-02-11

As a fairly frustrated developer (who does not like and does not use Flash or Silverlight), all I have to say is that if making a very simple translation will require as much code and hacks as a rounded button or a decent three-column layout, I am not going to use this.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Wed 15th Jul 2009 14:14 in reply to "RE: Comment by kaiwai"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

As a fairly frustrated developer (who does not like and does not use Flash or Silverlight), all I have to say is that if making a very simple translation will require as much code and hacks as a rounded button or a decent three-column layout, I am not going to use this.


How is it the fault of the technology if the development tools are cruddy? hopefully what we'll see as these open standards nibble away at Silverlight and Flash, that there will be development tools that'll rise to the occasion and make development easier.

Now, if you want to be a sadomasochist and code in vi, then go for it, but there will eventually be developer tools to make the whole exercise alot easier.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai
by FunkyELF on Wed 15th Jul 2009 20:25 in reply to "RE: Comment by kaiwai"
FunkyELF Member since:
2006-07-26

As a fairly frustrated developer (who does not like and does not use Flash or Silverlight), all I have to say is that if making a very simple translation will require as much code and hacks as a rounded button or a decent three-column layout, I am not going to use this.


Couldn't agree more.

The problem is that the web wasn't made for application deployment, so Java, Flash, and Silverlight came in.

Creating layouts in desktop apps is easy. Java has Matisse, QT has Designer. I wonder how many hacks are used in Facebook to create that "Start Menu" type thing that always stays at the bottom left of the viewable screen. I'm sure the answer is "way more than should be needed".

That said, I do agree with the first reply to this message. Wait for dev tools. I'm sure all those desktop apps are doing complicated hacks behind the scenes, its just transparent to the developer.

The problem with dev tools for the web is that you'll always be able to look at the output and critisize it. Google has some tools with the GWT, but people will look at the results and say that its worse than what FrontPage spits out. Nobody is digging into GTK, .NET, or QT to see all the hoops they're jumping through becuase nobody looks at their final object file. People will look at their .js, .html, .css files.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE: Comment by kaiwai
by FunkyELF on Wed 15th Jul 2009 20:13 in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
FunkyELF Member since:
2006-07-26

This is great news; one should expect for a complete solution to come all at once to replace Flash. What one will see is a gradual chipping away at the reason for Flash with developers gradually realising that the reason for its existence becomes less and less a reason to continue using it.


The people who use Flash use one application to create it. Their data is there right along with their code. Everything in one place.

While you can create flash-like effects using this new 3d CSS look at what you're actually doing? Look at how complicated it is. You're using javascript to manipulate [X]HTML DOMs, to manipulate CSS properties, and to make Ajax calls.

Isn't it great that HTML, CSS, and javascript are all separated? If you want to implement something new you now need to do it in 3 places. Whoops, forgot about that serverside ajax response... 4 places. Thats at least 4 places. If you're using a templating language and some other framework you'll have to edit a bunch more files.

I do see the benefits of not using flash. Search engines can crawl your content and more importantly people can scrape your content.

Okay...the grain of salt....
I have never developed flash. I barely develop any web stuff at all. I'm just saying this stuff looks pretty awkward and things like Java Applets / JavaFX / Silverlight seem much much easier to learn and develop in.

Reply Parent Score: 3