Linked by Hakime on Tue 14th Jul 2009 20:39 UTC
Internet & Networking It is not a secret that Apple is showing resistance to supporting Adobe's flash on the iPhone and that their efforts to add new features to HTML/CSS is driven towards reducing their dependence on Flash. Going further in that direction, the new hardware accelerated 3D CSS visual effects proposed for standards inclusion will be supported in Snow Leopard's Safari (it is already available in the latest Webkit nighty builds). An new impressive demo of the technology is available at Charles Ying blog.
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RE: Comment by kaiwai
by alexandru_lz on Wed 15th Jul 2009 11:43 UTC in reply to "Comment by kaiwai"
alexandru_lz
Member since:
2007-02-11

As a fairly frustrated developer (who does not like and does not use Flash or Silverlight), all I have to say is that if making a very simple translation will require as much code and hacks as a rounded button or a decent three-column layout, I am not going to use this.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai
by kaiwai on Wed 15th Jul 2009 14:14 in reply to "RE: Comment by kaiwai"
kaiwai Member since:
2005-07-06

As a fairly frustrated developer (who does not like and does not use Flash or Silverlight), all I have to say is that if making a very simple translation will require as much code and hacks as a rounded button or a decent three-column layout, I am not going to use this.


How is it the fault of the technology if the development tools are cruddy? hopefully what we'll see as these open standards nibble away at Silverlight and Flash, that there will be development tools that'll rise to the occasion and make development easier.

Now, if you want to be a sadomasochist and code in vi, then go for it, but there will eventually be developer tools to make the whole exercise alot easier.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai
by FunkyELF on Wed 15th Jul 2009 20:25 in reply to "RE: Comment by kaiwai"
FunkyELF Member since:
2006-07-26

As a fairly frustrated developer (who does not like and does not use Flash or Silverlight), all I have to say is that if making a very simple translation will require as much code and hacks as a rounded button or a decent three-column layout, I am not going to use this.


Couldn't agree more.

The problem is that the web wasn't made for application deployment, so Java, Flash, and Silverlight came in.

Creating layouts in desktop apps is easy. Java has Matisse, QT has Designer. I wonder how many hacks are used in Facebook to create that "Start Menu" type thing that always stays at the bottom left of the viewable screen. I'm sure the answer is "way more than should be needed".

That said, I do agree with the first reply to this message. Wait for dev tools. I'm sure all those desktop apps are doing complicated hacks behind the scenes, its just transparent to the developer.

The problem with dev tools for the web is that you'll always be able to look at the output and critisize it. Google has some tools with the GWT, but people will look at the results and say that its worse than what FrontPage spits out. Nobody is digging into GTK, .NET, or QT to see all the hoops they're jumping through becuase nobody looks at their final object file. People will look at their .js, .html, .css files.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[3]: Comment by kaiwai
by alexandru_lz on Wed 15th Jul 2009 21:58 in reply to "RE[2]: Comment by kaiwai"
alexandru_lz Member since:
2007-02-11

I certainly agree that developer tools hopping along will make the situation bearable. I don't have any problems with the output being hackish, as long as my continuous interventions, debugging and headaches are not necessary for it to work.

For what it's worth, Qt's solution is cool enough. You could lay out the entire interface programmatically and it wouldn't hurt nearly as much as doing the same thing with CSS.

The problem, as I see it, is simply that HTML, CSS and to some extent JS were simply not made with web apps in mind. CSS is a great document layout language, but it will require a hefty amount of tools before making an ergonomic, familiar and good-looking interface for an application will be at least as painless as doing the same thing on the desktop was about ten years ago.

Edit: However, I do believe part of the problems lay in the technology and not just in the crude development tools. Anyone remembers Motif? It used to have a set of reasonably good development tools (they weren't free, they were expensive as hell, but they did exist). Working with Motif still made me sad sometimes.

Edited 2009-07-15 22:00 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 1