Linked by Thom Holwerda on Thu 23rd Jul 2009 22:53 UTC, submitted by Remy Chi Jian Suen
Editorial So, Microsoft submits 20000 lines of code to the Linux kernel, all licensed under the GPL. Microsoft, who considers Linux a great threat, and once called the GPL a "cancer". Opinions on this one are flying all around us, but what does Linus Torvalds, Linux' benevolent dictator, think about all this?
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RE[5]: I agree...
by lemur2 on Fri 24th Jul 2009 01:41 UTC in reply to "RE[4]: I agree..."
lemur2
Member since:
2007-02-17

"I think you may find that the hate is coming from the Microsoft side of the fence.
In part, yes. But it's far from exclusive - Linus is right that there are a lot of people who feel that the goal of open-source development is (or should be) to destroy Microsoft. Which is nonsense - the goal of open-source development is to produce open-source software, "

Agreed. Precisely. Spot on. With you 100%.

and contributions from Microsoft should be as welcome as those from anywhere else.


Not sure about that ... given Microsoft's self-admitted intentions towards FOSS (i.e. to destroy it), and Microsoft's long and well documented history of using tactics such as "embrace, extend and extinguish" and "divide and conquer".

Now, that's not to say that Microsoft is a great friend to the open-source community, which is blatantly false. But there's a big difference between justified criticism, and the paranoid, unreasoning hostility that some demonstrate.


Agreed ... so why is there such a huge, overwhelming amount of paranoid, unreasoning hostility directed at FOSS coming from Microsoft and its supporters?

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[6]: I agree...
by Hiev on Fri 24th Jul 2009 01:46 in reply to "RE[5]: I agree..."
Hiev Member since:
2005-09-27

Looks like you are trying to justify the hate to MS at any cost, But hate whatever it comes from id bad.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: I agree...
by lemur2 on Fri 24th Jul 2009 02:03 in reply to "RE[6]: I agree..."
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

Looks like you are trying to justify the hate to MS at any cost, But hate whatever it comes from id bad.


True.

But please recognise that the hate is coming from Microsoft in the first instance. If anyone (including Microsoft) wants to stop it ... then that is where it must be stopped ... at the source from whence it comes.

If Microsoft were to stop hating FOSS, then there is absolutely no reason why Microsoft cannot be treated by FOSS in a similar fashion as any of the companies whose logo is visible on this page:

http://www.openinventionnetwork.com/about_members.php

or this one:

http://www.patentcommons.org/

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: I agree...
by niemau on Fri 24th Jul 2009 03:20 in reply to "RE[6]: I agree..."
niemau Member since:
2007-06-28

Looks like you are trying to justify the hate to MS at any cost, But hate whatever it comes from id bad.


you're misrepresenting the parent's statements as justifying hate, when that's obviously not the case.

my position goes like this, and is far more common than the 'hate' you would assign to anybody uninterested in MS:

microsoft *is* an agressive company whose highest ranking corporate officers have made plainly clear their intentions to essentially do away with FOSS.

because of their repetitive reliance on unfair business practices and willingness to, quite frankly, illegally destroy competition, we as consumers are given a choice. we can use MS products and technologies or we can choose to NOT use MS products and technologies.

note: this is NOT hate. this is a rational response to a repeated threat vector. MS is a corporation. it is not a person. corporations do not deserve a persistent benefit-of-the-doubt scenario as would be given to a human being making human mistakes. they should have been shut down or split up years ago.

i certainly don't *hate* microsoft. MS isn't worth my hate. i just want them out of my life, because they do me more harm than good. this is the position of most people who choose to avoid MS products.

i want to facepalm every time somebody calls me a blind MS-hater. it isn't blind; and, it isn't hate. i just want to maintain the ability to ignore them, as best as possible.

Reply Parent Score: 14

RE[7]: I agree... - always someone
by jabbotts on Fri 24th Jul 2009 13:35 in reply to "RE[6]: I agree..."
jabbotts Member since:
2007-09-06

I've had anti-foss a comments back from many posts that simply mention a non-Windows platform. The topic could be completely removed from any comparison of OS platforms yet someone will pipe up to spin it into another "US vs Them" debate. It's not unique to one side either was topics focusing only on Windows will quickly devolve into the same "US vs Them" nonsense.

I suggest that being able to mount a Documents and Settings directory as non-executable like I can with *nix platforms and I'm called a Windows hater being told I'm simply out to scare people away from the OS. I suggest that choosing an alternative to Windows is not always possible and I'm the enemy again. Some fanboy from one side or another will always find fault with not praying at there idol's alter.

Once the politics is removed from the topic, I've been reminded of things forgotten from my growing up on Windows machines. I used to climb through the registry like a freaking spider-monkey. Dig through the autostarts and services; a habit evolved out of years as an Autoexec and Config.sys tuner. Now after years of focusing on non-Windows platforms and a detrimental stint of employment outside of IT, I'm relearning these basic skills.

From any side, someone will always make it a pissing contest. It's very hard to get any good points one has to make considered when they are so well berried amongst personal attacks and "my daddy's OS can kick your daddy's OS" crap. If more people focused on the technical discussion and less on the emotional baggage, everyone would benefit.

Reply Parent Score: 5

RE[6]: I agree...
by polaris20 on Fri 24th Jul 2009 02:19 in reply to "RE[5]: I agree..."
polaris20 Member since:
2005-07-06


Not sure about that ... given Microsoft's self-admitted intentions towards FOSS (i.e. to destroy it), and Microsoft's long and well documented history of using tactics such as "embrace, extend and extinguish" and "divide and conquer".


I think much of the FOSS community already does a great job of the "divide" part of "divide and conquer".

I think Linus is spot on with his comments, and it's good to see such words coming from him.

Edited 2009-07-24 02:20 UTC

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: I agree...
by Delgarde on Fri 24th Jul 2009 02:27 in reply to "RE[5]: I agree..."
Delgarde Member since:
2008-08-19

Agreed ... so why is there such a huge, overwhelming amount of paranoid, unreasoning hostility directed at FOSS coming from Microsoft and its supporters?


Because FOSS is an ideology that not everyone subscribes to? Because it threatens existing businesses that have invested vast amounts of money into products, only to see FOSS equivalents springing up and undercutting them? Large companies generally don't like change, and open source is a much more serious threat than mere commercial competition.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: I agree...
by lemur2 on Fri 24th Jul 2009 02:31 in reply to "RE[6]: I agree..."
lemur2 Member since:
2007-02-17

"Agreed ... so why is there such a huge, overwhelming amount of paranoid, unreasoning hostility directed at FOSS coming from Microsoft and its supporters?
Because FOSS is an ideology that not everyone subscribes to? Because it threatens existing businesses that have invested vast amounts of money into products, only to see FOSS equivalents springing up and undercutting them? Large companies generally don't like change, and open source is a much more serious threat than mere commercial competition. "

OK. At least this identifies where the "hate" problem stems from. Big companies who want to charge people a fortune for a given service or product absloutely hate it when the people get it for themselves.

Reply Parent Score: 2

RE[7]: I agree...
by Vanders on Fri 24th Jul 2009 09:42 in reply to "RE[6]: I agree..."
Vanders Member since:
2005-07-06

Because FOSS is an ideology that not everyone subscribes to?


"Ideology"? Wow, that gives it fat too much credit. It's a development methodology. That's all.

Because it threatens existing businesses that have invested vast amounts of money into products, only to see FOSS equivalents springing up and undercutting them?


There's a word for being undercut in the market. I'll have to go look it up, hang on. Oh yeah, that's it. It's "business".

Getting undercut by the competition is what happens. Weather the competition is Open Source is not is utterly irrelevant. If your product is any good, it'll be able to compete.

Reply Parent Score: 3

RE[6]: I agree...
by ErrantX on Fri 24th Jul 2009 09:45 in reply to "RE[5]: I agree..."
ErrantX Member since:
2009-07-24

> I think you may find that the hate is coming from the Microsoft side of the fence.

What rubbish. Your exactly the person Linus is talking about.

Reply Parent Score: 5